I Did Not Just See An Endogenic System Coining Terms For "programmed Headmates" As In The Realms Of Computers.

I lost the posts we wanted to respond to, but I think I remember what we were gonna say

🗝️🏷️ RAMCOA with vague examples, syscourse?

Highly Complex DID

What “Complex” Means:

From what we’ve read, it seems like Complex refers to the specific disorder’s criteria. C-PTSD is PTSD with a different presentation; in this case, multiple/prolonged trauma causes difficulty tracing symptoms in the same ways as other PTSD cases. C-DID is DID with a different presentation; here it’s more intricate mechanisms that lead treatment down another path. Even CDD, which is dissociation into self-states instead of one dissociating self-state. The C just means that thing, plus some extra. There are going to be cases where a Complex patient is actually more simple to care for than a non-Complex patient — it’s just a matter of narrowing it down with more criteria.

Highly Complex:

As far as I know, there are no other communities that use Highly Complex as a label. It’s a specific word to whittle down the topic even further; C-DID but with more specifiers. For HC-DID, the specifiers are programming and structuring. Every human who experienced programming and lived is a RAMCOA survivor. Not every RAMCOA survivor considers themself a HC-DID system. Some survivors didn’t form systems at all. Others don’t think their system qualifies. Maybe people just don’t want to identify themselves this way. Even if it were a medical diagnosis — it’s not — forcing people to use labels they don’t want is rude at best.

What RAMCOA Is:

RAMCOA stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, Organized Abuse. Surviving any of those is enough to belong in the community.

Ritual Abuse - maltreatment (of anyone) including ceremonies or traditions. It can be anything from religious sacrifice to underage marriage.

Mind Control - manipulation of psychological processes. I genuinely don’t know if there has to be negative intent or a specific plan from the abuser to qualify, but even targeted McDonald’s ads make use of mind control (probably not abusively, I’ve never looked into that).

Organized Abuse - maltreatment that involves multiple perpetrators collaborating in their perpetration. If two people meet at a bar and then hurt a child together, that’s enough. It can be elaborate groups like churches or criminal groups, but the only requirement is more than one perp.

It can be one or a mix of any, but it’s still RAMCOA. Usually, the DID community uses RAMCOA to talk about surviving programming (Trauma-Based Mind Control for the purpose of creating a system), and we label our systems Highly Complex.

Extra Criteria:

To be Highly Complex, survivors are usually closest to C-DID. But wait, there’s more!

HC-DID systems also receive:

Programming - I only know of TBMC being used to split off dissociative alters, but I’d budge on that if someone knew otherwise. Abusers control the child (body) by causing calculated suffering until they get the results they want. Perps split off alters with goals in mind for them, and continue to break them until they fit the desires of the abusers. This control extends to every other aspect of HC-DID, and is the reason another label exists at all.

Layers - different dimensions of innerworld. Sometimes this looks like literal other realms inside, but it could also be like floors of a building or planets or other separate worlds. Layers are often assigned a name or cue that allows outsiders to maneuver a system’s landscape from the external world. Perps don’t go in as much as they bring out, by assigned alter or other cued manipulations.

Subsystems - alters with alters, except also programmed. Cues are assigned to each subsystem alter as well, usually related to the subsystem as a collective. Just like programmed singlet alters, subsystems can be arranged by outsiders for memories, tasks, etc.

Sidesystems - kind of multiple systems within the metasystem. Groups might be contained in a separate innerworld pocket, unwilling to communicate with other alters, or otherwise unreachable in the same way other groups are. These sidesystems usually have a collective task, or function as a whole other system in the body. Details of what they do and why are also conditioned.

Programs - conditioning attached to cues. Programs might force amnesia, give body memories, set off chains of tasks, or any other typical or atypical system capability. Programs might be perceived as wires and buttons, or files, or whatever else programmers decide.

Not all HC-DID systems will have the same level of programming. Not all programmed systems will be more “complex” that other systems. Having a term to describe our unique experiences helps a lot of survivors to feel understood, especially if they’re already open about their past.

RAMCOA survivors are kept in a strange position online and irl. We’re used as examples of “unimaginable trauma” and “extreme abuse”, but are largely told to sit down and shut up; we’re too dangerous to speak up about what was done to us, too unbelievable, or too much at all. Finding help is a nightmare, sucks butt for everyone involved, and is fairly necessary for long term recovery. Like many systems, we beat the odds time and time again to call ourselves “survivors” instead of “victims”. Like many systems, we are rejected by most of society. Unlike most systems, we are a secret within system communities.

Being Complex is not being special, it’s just a haughty way to say there are extra requirements. Recovery for many systems is already a stretch. For HC-DID systems, we are healing the impossible.

Gentle reminder that sharing what your disability is completely up to you no matter how “visibly” disabled you are. No one should make you disclose what your disability is to anyone you’re not comfortable with. You can choose to say as much or as little as you want.

~Fluff time~ (slight hurt/comfort, fluffiness, and this is based off of my headcanon about New York loving coloring books)

Also: Connie is Connecticut’s nickname

=======================================================================

5pm:

The meeting had been rather stressful for New York today. There was a lot of yelling and fighting and cussing and other various loud sounds that were overstimulating him and he felt like just curling up in ball and crying where he sat and covering his ears to block out everything. But then he would have had to deal with the others asking what was wrong with him and he did NOT need their pity.

Once the meeting was over, he left the meeting room as fast as he could without literally sprinting like a D1 track athlete and went to his room. Once he got there, he grabbed one of his many adult coloring books, his 96 pack of crayons (bet it has a sharpener too- those are literally the best-), his phone, and his Bluetooth headphones. York set the stuff on his bed and walked over to his closet and grabbed his cropped AC/DC hoodie the may or may not be a little big on him and literally eliminated his arms/hands. He put on the hoodie and headphones, turned on his music, grabbed his stuff, and started his way to the living room. On his way out of his room, he saw one of his fidget cubes and grabbed it with little to no hesitation before going to the living room.

He walked down the hall and looked around the lounge area of the NE floor to see how many people were there. Pennsylvania and Mass were talking in the kitchen, Jersey and Rhode Island were sitting at the kitchen island exchanging memes, and Maine was sitting on couch paying attention to the TV. Aight, he’ll be alright. York snuck past everybody and went into the corner of the living room where he usually hid when he wanted to. There, he set down his stuff, grabbed a pillow, found a good picture, and got to work.

There was something about coloring that brought some weird form of peace to his soul. He just liked the mindlessness of it and the fact that it gave him two positive things to focus on instead of many negative things, and that was: staying in the lines and listening to the music.

=======================================================================

A few hours later, at around 10pm:

Connecticut was getting ready for bed when he decided to go get a cup of water before sleeping. As he walked to the kitchen, he noticed something laying in the corner of the living room. He walked over and his heart nearly melted at the sight that lay before him.

York was curled up in a ball near fully asleep next to his coloring book on the floor. He had one arm, which was covered completely by his hoodie sleeve, wrapped around his torso and his legs pulled up to torso. His other arm/hand that wasn’t wrapped around himself had a crayon in it, and York’s phone was next to him still playing his music and his hood was covering his head as well as half his face. It was overall an adorable sight, but Connie wasn’t about to let York just sleep on the floor like that. He was also questioning how the he// York was able to sleep in that position and be comfy.

He walked over to his youngest brother and knelt down next to him. He gently shook York’s shoulder and whispered, "York..?" A few times. Slowly but surely Connie heard a slight groan, indicating that York was slightly awake now. He gently took the hood off of the younger’s head and ruffled his hair slightly, chuckling when he leaned into the touch. "C’mon ya little dork. Time for bed. You need it."

"Mm not tired…." York mumbled as though he wasn’t practically asleep right now.

"Mhm yea okay." Connie said sarcastically as he ran his hand York’s hair and gently scratched his scalp, putting the younger in pure bliss. "Yer literally falling asleep right now."

"Mm not…." protested the Empire State. "F(speaks New York) off…."

"Yes you are, don’t bother tryin’ to get out of this." Said the Constitution State. He gently poked York his exposed side, making him flinch and curl up completely. This gave Connie the opportunity to pick up the taller in his arms, carry him to the couch, and lay down with York (who was practically asleep) curled up next to him. He grabbed a comforter that was on the back of the couch and gently draped it over the two of them.

York had now buried his face in his brother’s chest and was sound asleep.

Connie tilted his head slightly and planted a gentle brotherly kiss to the top of his head. "Night Yorkie…."

And he could’ve sworn he heard a near dead silent, "Welterusten (Dutch for: Good Night)." in response to his words.

if it’s ok to ask what exactly counts as experiencing tbmc? does it include manipulation and gaslighting.. childhood torture? what exactly is mind control how does someone know if they have been through that? is childhood torture in general considered ramcoa as well or must it meet specified requirements?

Okay so we ended up getting hit by a shit ton of stuff in our life so we've been a bit less active here- sorry it took a while to answer.

First we have another post we have made discussing some of the stuff surrounding TBMC. You can find that post here.

Second, this is a religious sight that is trying to make Christianity more healthy and safe and trauma informed, not fully our cup of tea but it has an interesting page on TBMC here. (Mention it's religious and which religion because it can be triggering)

Now onto us actually answering things ourself.

what exactly counts as experiencing tbmc? does it include manipulation and gaslighting.. childhood torture?

TBMC as we have previously mentioned is known as Trauma Based or Torture Based Mind Control. Childhood torture very often is done for the purpose of mind control, in which case it would fall under TBMC. Most childhood torture is RAMCOA but not all of it falls under TBMC as TBMC is more known as the result rather than the traumatic incidents that it takes to occur the way RAMCOA generally defines the experiences.

TBMC is also not something only children can experience. The experiences of children born into it or raised with it at a young age will be different than an adult introduced to it later in life, but it is still TBMC all the same. There is no cut off age for when torture magically can stop affecting the wiring of your brain. Humans are malleable, and bad people will always know that. Governments will know that too. TBMC is rampant among governmental agencies.

All TBMC is manipulation- but not all manipulation is TBMC. TBMC is done with the goal of rewiring your brain and making you behave in very specific ways. It's meant to make you do things you would not otherwise or believe in things you would not otherwise. It is intrinsically linked to programming. Programming can be done to individual alters (induced by programmers targeting a specific self-state or state of mind or associating certain traumas with specific orders/tasks/etc to make an alter be attached to a specific behavior or task or idea), and system-wide or on the whole of the person (think strong unwavering loyalty common in many cults that refuse all evidence of being in a cult).

Gaslighting might get used within TBMC but it is not inherited to TBMC and by itself would not produce the same effects as TBMC.

what exactly is mind control how does someone know if they have been through that?

Oh man this is where it gets very tricky. There is no exact answer to what mind control is as it happens in a variety of different ways. Mind control is basically manipulation of someone's thoughts and behavior that then become intrinsic to the person and last far after they were programmed. It's more than just being made to believe strange things- it's internalizing them to such a degree that they impact your day to day life and view of the world as a whole.

Us being a decade away from the cult and having no reason to go back but having an urge even stronger than our OCD compulsions at times to go back is one type of programming we experience. We also have what presents as agoraphobia- but do not have fear of open spaces and can get groceries fine and go to work and school without issue. This is actually our self-isolation program that tells us when there is no obligation we should never interact with anyone else- there is no reason to. Unless the reason is to proselytize- and since we do not have the faith we once did, that is no longer an option. It's a deeply internalized behavior and belief that sticks even when we logically know it's bad. We are aware it is stupid and unreasonable but we physically cannot break out of it (where we are in recovery currently that is).

It's hard to tell for sure if you have it or not. One thing we had that should have been incredibly fucking obvious to us but wasn't- was that we excused the abuse one of the people in our life put us through as "he was just trying to train us". Never occurred to us that the fact he was "training" us made it worse. It was basically self-defense but not for actual defense type stuff if you catch my drift.

There can also be signs within your behavior. Sometimes it's hard to differentiate OCD and programs as well because some programs can be pushed back on the same way you can with OCD compulsions. However in our case most of our programs are just innate and incredibly difficult to stop ourselves from doing if we can at all. Realizing you have behavior that you struggle to physically stop and have no wish to engage in and do while consciously being aware you do not want to do them and this happens often- was one of the big signs to us. (And again it's a very complex issue because of different mental health concerns that could be tricky.)

is childhood torture in general considered ramcoa as well or must it meet specified requirements?

We personally consider it to fall under that because more extreme forms of abuse tend to end up with the same issues but there is debate. The most common things people know of that fall under RAMCOA is trafficking and cults.

However if you are trying to determine if something you have already known to experience counts as this term there's a few things you can do.

Does it fall under RA/Ritual abuse? It can hard to tell but I suggest just looking up basic information on what RA is conceptually (if you are in a good mental state and/or have a professional to fall back on and if possible a safety net of friends or family). RA is a very vast concept.

Did you experience TBMC or another form of mind control? If yes then automatically the label applies to you. This also goes for hypnotic mind control and substances used for mind control- as they are also important but less talked about forms of this.

Did you experienced organized abuse? This is a group partaking in abuse towards you. Whether it be mandated or the norm by something like a cult, or a criminal ring, etc. It's a bit hard to get into right now for me.

The only requirements are that you experience RA, MC, or OA. You can experience multiple- RA AND MC for example. Or just one. OA or RA. We struggle mostly with MC as we grew up in a cult that kinda worshipped the leader almost (but nobody would ever admit it even though they quote shit he says online like bible quotes). Which is why we talk about it so much, but it's not necessary to be a RAMCOA survivor.

It's okay to take time to figure out the extent of trauma you might have gone through. It's okay if you fit or don't fit any particular label. All trauma is incredibly important. There just tends to be a lot of subgroups of people with specific experiences because of how it impacts their daily life.

im tired of ppl misusing these terms so:

codependent does not mean two people who have a strong attachment and are very clingy towards one another

codependent means a specific type of unhealthy relationship where one person engages in unhealthy/self-destructive behaviours and the other person becomes their caretaker whilst enabling them, out of a need to feel needed

trauma bonding does not mean two people find common ground because they've both been through similar traumatic events and grow close because they understand each other's experiences

trauma bonding means bonding to your abuser as a survival strategy or due to manipulation. (similar to the concept of stockholm syndrome)

I lost the posts we wanted to respond to, but I think I remember what we were gonna say

🗝️🏷️ RAMCOA with vague examples, syscourse?

Highly Complex DID

What “Complex” Means:

From what we’ve read, it seems like Complex refers to the specific disorder’s criteria. C-PTSD is PTSD with a different presentation; in this case, multiple/prolonged trauma causes difficulty tracing symptoms in the same ways as other PTSD cases. C-DID is DID with a different presentation; here it’s more intricate mechanisms that lead treatment down another path. Even CDD, which is dissociation into self-states instead of one dissociating self-state. The C just means that thing, plus some extra. There are going to be cases where a Complex patient is actually more simple to care for than a non-Complex patient — it’s just a matter of narrowing it down with more criteria.

Highly Complex:

As far as I know, there are no other communities that use Highly Complex as a label. It’s a specific word to whittle down the topic even further; C-DID but with more specifiers. For HC-DID, the specifiers are programming and structuring. Every human who experienced programming and lived is a RAMCOA survivor. Not every RAMCOA survivor considers themself a HC-DID system. Some survivors didn’t form systems at all. Others don’t think their system qualifies. Maybe people just don’t want to identify themselves this way. Even if it were a medical diagnosis — it’s not — forcing people to use labels they don’t want is rude at best.

What RAMCOA Is:

RAMCOA stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, Organized Abuse. Surviving any of those is enough to belong in the community.

Ritual Abuse - maltreatment (of anyone) including ceremonies or traditions. It can be anything from religious sacrifice to underage marriage.

Mind Control - manipulation of psychological processes. I genuinely don’t know if there has to be negative intent or a specific plan from the abuser to qualify, but even targeted McDonald’s ads make use of mind control (probably not abusively, I’ve never looked into that).

Organized Abuse - maltreatment that involves multiple perpetrators collaborating in their perpetration. If two people meet at a bar and then hurt a child together, that’s enough. It can be elaborate groups like churches or criminal groups, but the only requirement is more than one perp.

It can be one or a mix of any, but it’s still RAMCOA. Usually, the DID community uses RAMCOA to talk about surviving programming (Trauma-Based Mind Control for the purpose of creating a system), and we label our systems Highly Complex.

Extra Criteria:

To be Highly Complex, survivors are usually closest to C-DID. But wait, there’s more!

HC-DID systems also receive:

Programming - I only know of TBMC being used to split off dissociative alters, but I’d budge on that if someone knew otherwise. Abusers control the child (body) by causing calculated suffering until they get the results they want. Perps split off alters with goals in mind for them, and continue to break them until they fit the desires of the abusers. This control extends to every other aspect of HC-DID, and is the reason another label exists at all.

Layers - different dimensions of innerworld. Sometimes this looks like literal other realms inside, but it could also be like floors of a building or planets or other separate worlds. Layers are often assigned a name or cue that allows outsiders to maneuver a system’s landscape from the external world. Perps don’t go in as much as they bring out, by assigned alter or other cued manipulations.

Subsystems - alters with alters, except also programmed. Cues are assigned to each subsystem alter as well, usually related to the subsystem as a collective. Just like programmed singlet alters, subsystems can be arranged by outsiders for memories, tasks, etc.

Sidesystems - kind of multiple systems within the metasystem. Groups might be contained in a separate innerworld pocket, unwilling to communicate with other alters, or otherwise unreachable in the same way other groups are. These sidesystems usually have a collective task, or function as a whole other system in the body. Details of what they do and why are also conditioned.

Programs - conditioning attached to cues. Programs might force amnesia, give body memories, set off chains of tasks, or any other typical or atypical system capability. Programs might be perceived as wires and buttons, or files, or whatever else programmers decide.

Not all HC-DID systems will have the same level of programming. Not all programmed systems will be more “complex” that other systems. Having a term to describe our unique experiences helps a lot of survivors to feel understood, especially if they’re already open about their past.

RAMCOA survivors are kept in a strange position online and irl. We’re used as examples of “unimaginable trauma” and “extreme abuse”, but are largely told to sit down and shut up; we’re too dangerous to speak up about what was done to us, too unbelievable, or too much at all. Finding help is a nightmare, sucks butt for everyone involved, and is fairly necessary for long term recovery. Like many systems, we beat the odds time and time again to call ourselves “survivors” instead of “victims”. Like many systems, we are rejected by most of society. Unlike most systems, we are a secret within system communities.

Being Complex is not being special, it’s just a haughty way to say there are extra requirements. Recovery for many systems is already a stretch. For HC-DID systems, we are healing the impossible.

to those of y'all who want the feeling of sh but don't want the blood or the scars or smth:

one: take a paper mask and take out that bendy metal thing out of the top, you can hurt yourself with it but it doesn't really leave marks. it's hard to even make yourself bleed (but it is possible) but it gets that feeling of hurting yourself. it doesn't really hurt that much but it's better than nothing when you're about to break, but please use a clean mask.

two: cut your nails too short. people don't really question it and it hurts for multiple days, but be careful. your nails are dirty so wash your hands regularly.

three: scratch yourself. literally just nails against skin- BUT BE CAREFUL!!! its very easy to get carried away with scratching and if you go too far it'll just be the same as using a blade but less sanitary. your nails are dirty.

four: intentionally nick yourself while shaving. pretty self explanatory, just don't do it on your youknowwhat that shit hurts way too much and there is lots of bacteria there only do it on your legs and arms or idk chest?

five: pour wax on yourself. it's not that dangerous as long as you're careful and is a kink for some so idk you could say it's for that ig. be careful youre messing with fire.

six: wear slightly too small clothes (specifically underwear). it hurts and you shouldn't do it for a long period of time or a lot but if you wanna be in pain while going shopping or smth it'll definitely hurt.

i dont encourage s3lf h4rm and i encourage recovery, but if youre going to sh please do it safely and take care of your cvts!

pls tell me if the info here is wrong or a bad recommendation or anything ill try and fix it

Definition of Polyfragmented (in DID)

Dictionary definition: Poly = A prefix meaning “many, Fragmented = adjective. reduced to fragments. existing or functioning as though broken into separate parts; disorganized; disunified

Polyfragmentation is unusual in that there is no actual definition for the term. There are many definitions out there, but no definition is agreed upon by a majority either within academic realms or socially.

We see this sometimes with other DID/OSDD terms such as “integration” being used to mean two (almost opposite) things.

With polyfragmentation there are many different definitions, with some focusing on number of parts, some on internal system structure, etc. But even those who insist that the definition revolves around numerical value (the number of alters/parts), there is no accepted and agreed upon number. And so, we will look at the possible definitions, socially vs scientifically/medically.

Keep reading

safety planning resources

A safety plan is a personalized, practical plan to improve your safety while experiencing abuse, preparing to leave an abusive situation, or after you leave. This plan includes vital information tailored to your unique situation and will help you prepare for and respond to different scenarios suited to your individual circumstances. Including creating an emergency escape plan if you need to escape a violent situation, making your current circumstances safer, making sure your loved ones are safe, etc.

It can be hard to think clearly or make logical decisions during moments of crisis. Having a safety plan laid out in advance can help you protect yourself and others in high-stress situations. (hotline website). Safety planning is a top priority, whether you choose to remain in the home or leave. Making a safety plan involves identifying actions to increase your safety and that of your children. (Western centre for research and education on violence against women and children)

without further ado, here are a list of resources I’ve found especially useful. most of this is not specific to any particular location, although they do come from location specific resources so some parts of the resources may need to be adapted to your particular geographical/sociopolitical location (e.g., legal stuff like laws around bringing children with you, resources like shelters or hotline numbers). but the overall idea should be somewhat consistent.

resources list:

the toronto police victims services website actually had some great resources on safety planning.

complete victim services booklet (pdf)

how to access your safety (pdf)

planning for your children’s safety (pdf)

plan for safety leaving (pdf)

what to take with you when you leave (pdf)

what to put in your go bag (pdf)

plan your safety inside your home (pdf)

plan your safety outside (pdf)

Our Safety Planning Booklet is available in the following translations: Chinese | English | French | Hungarian | Japanese | Korean | Polish | Portugese | Spanish | Tagalog. To receive a copy of the translated Safety Planning Booklet, please contact our crisis counsellors by telephone 416-808-7066 to receive a copy via email or regular mail.

interactive guide to safety planning from the us’ national domestic violence hotline.

safety planning app (canada only)

how to plan for your safety (Canadian government, widely applicable)

the ones above are the ones i found the most useful personally. however, i’d like to add to this resource by providing more that are more location/language/need specific for folks, so i’ll try to come back to this and keep adding to it. if you have any others to add, please do.

women’s aid (uk resource, widely applicable advice)

australia, northside pdf

safety planning booklet (australia, pdf)

safety planning booklet (South Africa, pdf)

Feel free to reblog for sample size & add comments in the tags.

RAMCOA stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, & Organized Abuse.