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The differences between C-DID and HC-DID

WARNING: RAMCOA AND TMBC TALK. STAY SAFE!!!

So, we see a lot of people on here are saying that HC-DID is just C-DID but with a different abuse history, which is only a very small part of makes the two different! So, we’re going to explain in this what differentiates the two, as well as what makes them similar!!!

Also, no hate to those saying they’re the same as most of not all of the time they’re just misinformed!!!

Overlap

Polyfragmented

Has subsystems

If there’s an inner world it’s complex

Smaller window for structure formation (eg. 0-5 years old instead of 0-9)

Can have a low splitting tolerance

C-DID traits not present in HC-DID

No mind control/programmed alters

this is the most important thing!!! I wouldn’t recommend looking into MC and it’s forms if you are suspecting a history of it for yourself, but there are different programs (eg. eta, beta, iota, spider in web) that create and mind control alters. We’ll get into that more in HC-DID exclusive!!!

Always has low split tolerance or group splittings

High amnesia barriers in every area

Was not intentionally created/disorder was not manipulated by abusers to serve them

HC-DID traits not present in C-DID

Programming and programmed alters.

We’re going to use an example here, so be warned. Let’s say the XYZ system has gamma and beta programming. Gamma programming is loyalty programming. When XYZ heard a certain string of numbers, a member of the ABC sidesystem (more on that later) comes out. An alter from there then goes to contact an abuser asking for sex, to which the abuser replies. The abuser then plays a song that triggers out a member of the DEF sidesystem, which is beta aka sexually programmed. The alters come out and have sex with the abuser.

Another example. Suicide and sh are discussed. The 123 system has omega programming, which is suicidal and sh programming. The host of the 123 system decides to look into RAMCOA, and a higher up/internal handler with Omega programming is alerted by a gatekeeper. The handler then orders the gatekeeper to let the 456 sidesystem take front, to which the alters take turns in mutilating the body in different ways. At the end, the host fronts and human instincts, programming and logical reasoning all decide that looking into RAMCOA is not worth it, meaning the system doesn’t find out about its history for a long time.

Sidesystems. Sidesystems are a set of programmed alters meant to carry out a specific programmed act. For example, a theta aka religiously programmed sidesystem may exist for certain rituals, in which one alter fronts for each step. These are different from subsystems because subsystems are not programmed.

Can have a high split tolerance as well as a low split tolerance

Can have low amnesia barriers in some areas with high amnesia barriers in others (layer 1 alters can remember what the others do but don’t remember anything about the layer 3 alters and their actions)

Disorder was intentionally manipulated to serve the abuser(s) whether they knew about DID as a disorder or not

And those are what we’ve got! We hope that this post was informative and helped you get a better understanding of the differences between the two structures!!! Tysm for reading, and have a good day!!!

On writing DID characters/stories

I asked a DID friend about writing DID coded characters and stories, because myself and another wanted to make sure our representation was respectful and empathetic. That said, neither story is intentionally depicting DID, but the coding is inevitably there.

Here is their response. This is from one system, and is not the end all be all on DID. My personal recommendation would be to have a sensitivity reader if you are intentionally writing DID, but if your story has DID/multiple personality tropes and not DID specifically, the following is for you.

Are these distinct personalities? Like separate and distinct as in do they identify as separate individuals? Do they communicate? Are there amnesia barriers? Do they have separate thoughts and memories and opinions? Dissociation and fugue states can occur in other conditions. DID is a fairly specific criteria. OSDD a and b are similar but have key differences. Some systems can be as small as two so that’s not really a factor although to be honest I don’t know systems like that.

But is this character going to be like explicitly stated to have DID? If not, then they don’t need to worry about getting terms right or being believable even, it can just be “DID coded” characters. Like The Crystal Gems from Steven Universe are very DID coded to me or the whole series is. I mean Stevonnie is what it’s like being blended co/con which happens often.

It’s not DID but it’s a lot like DID and looking at the fanfic that way may alleviate some pressure. If you just wanna make sure it’s not offensive or something somehow by accident you can check with a sensitivity reader. Jekyll and Hyde is also a well worn trope, so if it's only two personalities you don't need to fret about DID representation.

And it’s just my opinion but like I feel like we have autistic coded and queer coded characters. Coding vs overt spelling certain things out happens for a variety of reasons. I think for things as complex as a condition like DID, overt means you will spend a LOT more time focusing on and explaining the condition and how it affects the character’s life and relationships, whereas keeping it coded is helpful for avoiding all of that and just using their condition more functionally.

Making them have DID flat out means you can’t use it as a simple ploy device, Which is gonna over complicate your story and characters in this instance. But if you do it right then the demographic will still see representation and take it positively and those not in the know will just take it all at face value.

For example, the whole Venom thing is very plural coded but obviously that’s coded and different being it’s a parasite and it’s not trauma based. It works as an analogue and it makes you think about parallels. it’s entirely different when you make a character like Moon Knight or Crazy Jane from Doom Patrol, because then eventually you’re getting into their system functioning, their trauma history, and the actual disorder. Then how it debilitates them as well as empowers them all becomes a huge part of their story.

Again, I myself do not have DID and I am sharing what my DID friend wrote in response to my question. If you have DID, feel free to reblog and respond to agree or disagree or add to it.

I hope this is helpful to anyone writing DID or DID-coded characters.

Fun Trauma Things :)

Feeling betrayed when people defend or sympathize with your abuser(s)

Severe abandonment issues

Constantly questioning if you deserved the abuse

Am I actually a terrible person or am I just internalizing things my abuser(s) have said to me??

Purposefully seeking out toxic relationships to further destroy your mental health

Restoring to destructive coping mechanisms because you never learned how to self-soothe

Having a panic attack when someone raises their voice at you

Constantly reinventing yourself because you’re paranoid about turning into your abuser(s)

Never being completely certain which memories are real

Difficulty creating and maintaining close relationships due to trust issues

Tons of uncertainty regarding your religious identity

What if I’m just faking everything for attention?

Fluctuating between hating yourself and hating your abuser(s)

Hypersexuality and other forms of sexual dysfunction

Craving abuse and mistreatment and despising yourself for it

Denying yourself love and comfort because you want to suffer alone and you don’t even deserve it anyways

Picking up on the slightest change of tone in someone’s voice

Projecting the mentality of your abuser(s) onto everyone you know, because if one person who you’re close with can hurt you, so can every other person too!

Maybe I was the abuser all along? Maybe I’m just being manipulative and selfish and I’m actually a horrible abusive monster??

Minuscule, insignificant things reminding you of The Bad Memories and inducing a mental breakdown

Wishing your abuser(s) had just killed you instead of leaving you alive to suffer for the rest of your life

Dissociating for weeks on end, then suddenly having an explosive meltdown because you spilled your cereal

Feeling angry at everyone around you for never noticing the blatantly obvious symptoms of early-onset trauma

Persistent feelings of worthlessness, because if your abuser(s) don’t love you, it must mean you’re completely unlovable

Connecting the dots between traumatic memories and mental health issues you have while psychoanalyzing yourself in the shower

Inescapable suicidal thoughts at all times, always

People should be allowed to talk about RAMCOA. Is it fucked up? Yes. Should you be careful if you're gonna look into it? Also yes.

But the fact that most people don't even know it exists is wrong. You can't stop something from happening if you don't know it's happening in the first place.

Can you describe or explain what an emotional flashback is? I wanna have that level of awareness too. I was listening to sad music and disassociating too.

Emotional Flashbacks are one of the hallmark symptoms of CPTSD and one of the things that differentiates it from PTSD. 

In PTSD and typical flashbacks you flashback to an event and are re-experiencing that event as an explicit memory. In typical flashbacks you are experiencing a specific memory of an event. 

In CPTSD and Emotional Flashbacks you flashback to an emotional state without a clear memory of the event that caused this state. So you are experiencing the emotions tied to the traumatic event without remembering the event itself. 

This makes it harder to recognize that you are experiencing a flashback because you seem to just feel bad for no reason, especially if you don’t realize that you were triggered. People with CPTSD sometimes can’t remember specific traumatic events because trauma was long term and a part of their daily life, and/or because the trauma began at such an early age. 

To give a more clear example, I recognized that I was having an emotional flashback today because I was feeling frozen, helpless, powerless, and as if my actions would have no impact on the world around me. 

Just recognizing that you are having an emotional flashback can be helpful, but grounding techniques that pull you back into the present are especially helpful. Once I realized I was in an emotional flashback I turned off the sad music and tried to reorient myself to the present. 

Writing this reply to you has actually been very grounding. 

I don't feel like theres a lot of resources or just even thought given to systems still like. In it. Still in, or adjacent to, the abusive or traumatic environments culpable for the development of this coping mechanism in the first place.

People will talk about persecutors and self-harmful system members, honestly, it feels like pretty much only in the context of a safe or safe-adjacent environment. And I understand. This community is really recovery focused, especially because a lot of people only realize they're a part of it because they're in recovery. When it's such a large portion of the community, its expected that they pay so much focus to it.

But when you are newly in this community, trying to work & communicate with other system members, regardless still having to heavily use that coping mechanism in the "maladaptive" way, and everyone is talking about you and your essential work & role in your system as "that one asshole trying to help, but little do they know the danger is gone and now all they are is a huge prick! ohohohoho! persecutor positivity 💖" it's just. It's honestly just infuriating.

For one! Does your persecutor feel safe or are you just telling them it is? Second. Some of us (persecutors) in the community still have to do our fucking jobs. I feel wonderful for people who can afford different coping mechanisms, whether they are still in the overwhelming environment or not. But some of us cannot. I can't always afford to have a caretaker making sure everybody feels fine and safe, sometimes I just need to get a trauma holder (who really can't fucking be here) out, and keep them out. And sometimes, that means you're gonna be fucking mean.

I just want some sympathy for who I am now. Not some fictionalized ideal of myself that "exists in the future", when this isn't needed anymore. I don't want the only narrative I hear about myself (and other persecutor types) to be that not only am I protecting myself in a "really bad way", but I have no place in this community or even my own system until I am no longer doing that. 'That', of course, being 'keeping my head above the water'. I want people to understand that the work I do can and does help, I'm valuable now, not just "in the future" when I've been fixed reformed into a protector.

I'm probably blowing this specific issue way out of proportion. I just want to feel like I'm not just automatically percieved as "that 'internally-abusive' POS every system has", especially when we as a system know it helps our situation overall, and people do seem to know that persecutors act that way for a reason. I am still experiencing that reason. Yes, there are... times when my expertise should not be employed, I do understand that I can cause unnecessary harm those times, and me and our caregiver get into spats about that kinda stuff. But as our caretaker he also understands that my "bad" actions are necessary sometimes, I am valuable even like this, (and also that he's lot better at gauging whether something needs to be persecuted away than I am, so it can be hard not to get carried away sometimes ime)..... but most importantly, he understands that I am as much affected by the situation we're in as anyone else, and right now, as long as its efficient in just getting us out the other side, anything goes.

I know I'm hurtful. I know that when we do get out of this, a lot of those resources on becoming a """""reformed""""" persecutor will suddenly probably be very helpful to me. But there has to be more sympathy (focus, resources, etc) for people in this community that still have to use these ("maladaptive") coping mechanisms. Constantly talking horribly about members of your community that are not only that way for a very understandable reason, but often have to keep being that way just so they don't end up dead, is. Not very productive or healthy for the overall community imo.

I don't really know what else to say. People still in this shit, people who need to use the skills they adapted regardless if its '"healthy", or pleasant, or palatable, we need this community. We are already here, and every single one of you has been in our place once, even if you were not aware of it. Please. Please have sympathy for me. My actions. Who I am. There is no other way I can be right now. Please.

clones and splitting -nightmare (but pink helped at the end)

Adhd really is like... bedroom is slightly messy it would be nice to tidy it some

bedroom is very messy I really should tidy up

bedroom is chaotic I NEED to tidy but my brain says no. Why. Whyyy.

I guess I’ll just have to watch where I step in here for the rest of my life. The mess is everywhere. I’m one with the mess.

A sudden Need to Clean™ makes you get the room looking like some fancy homes magazine cover, and you think “I’ll never ever let it get that bad again, and then...

bedroom is slightly messy (uh oh)

I am seriously thinking about making a big post about this

Can people stop pushing the idea that you shouldn’t share information about RAMCOA at all? Yeah, sharing detailed information about programming publicly or with people who don’t need it can be dangerous, but it’s already such a taboo topic to the point where a lot of survivors feel like they can’t even speak up about what happened to them. And they have the right to, they endured it.

If you’re saying “be careful how much you share about programming” that’s valid. I’ve seen a lot of people saying that and that makes perfect sense. But “don’t talk about RAMCOA” do people not realize that’s what many of the perpetrators of this type of abuse want? They want total silence. They go to insane lengths just to ensure survivors can’t talk about this. They thrive off secrecy. They’re protected by people’s ignorance. This is a widespread issue that requires a societal effort to put a stop to. How will that happen if people aren’t educated on the fact that this happens, at the very least?

I know a lot of people can use this info to hurt people or get some sick pleasure from hearing about the abuse. But that doesn’t take away the need for this to be heard and known about. Stop silencing survivors.