Results Time!

I’ve been getting into Ace Attorney! Scene from Farewell My Turnabout (no spoilers tho pls, I haven’t finished the case yet)

(Edited to adjust my argument).

I think RTFA confirming that Miles Edgeworth didn't intentionally forge evidence aligns with his established character in the first four cases. It does take away some audience interpretation but personally I'm fine with that.

First of all I don't think the rest of AA1 ever confirmed it one way or the other. There are a few instances where Phoenix thinks of Edgeworth as an evidence forger but it's not like Phoenix would know for sure either. (Do correct me, with specific lines please, if I'm wrong though).

But more importantly, if you only look at the first four cases of AA1 Edgeworth being an evidence forger doesn't make sense with his character. Why would a prosecutor forge evidence? Not including reasons like being blackmailed. 1) If they don't care (enough) about the truth (prioritizing things like success over it), or 2) if they truly believe the defendant is guilty and are desperate for a conviction (aka the reason Adrian Andrews forges evidence in 2-4).

Does Edgeworth care about the truth, before the start of his redemption arc at the end of 1-3?

Yes... kind of. I don't think he prioritizes the truth or consciously cares about it. As the "Demon Prosecutor", Edgeworth cares about justice, and achieving it through punishment. However, convicting the wrong person would not be justice to him. Which is what makes Edgeworth change sides to convict the right person in 1-3. So in that sense, he does care about the truth.

You could argue that Edgeworth had already lost once to Phoenix and thought "screw this, my perfect record is already gone, another loss wouldn't change that fact". But compare him to two characters who are actually obsessed with their perfect records. Manfred, a perfectionist control-freak, getting a penalty (not even losing!) unraveled him so much that he killed Gregory in the heat of the moment. Franziska after losing in 2-2 declares that: "That spirit channeling trial was a sham! I refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy! It did not count!" She doesn't even want to admit that she lost. Edgeworth, on the other hand, doesn't act like someone who truly prioritizes his win record over the truth.

Because Edgeworth didn't just let himself lose in 1-3, he made himself lose. He made Vasquez testify again. She would have gotten away if Edgeworth didn't say anything. And after the trial he tells the judge "Will Powers was innocent. That he should be found so is only natural… not a miracle."

Okay but if Edgeworth does care about the truth (to some extent), and believed that every defendant being guilty was the truth, he could have easily gone down the path of forging evidence to ensure the verdict reflected what he believed to be true. That leads me to my next question:

2. Does Edgeworth truly believe that every defendant he prosecutes is guilty?

Actually no. He says this in Turnabout Sisters: "Innocent"...? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy.

Yeah I think that line speaks for itself.

Miles Edgeworth can't bring himself to consciously care about or prioritize the truth, but the moment it's presented in front of him he also can't bring himself to ignore it. He doesn't think it would be just to knowingly convict an innocent person, but he's so disillusioned and distrusting of people that he's lost faith in finding the truth.

So, he commits himself to getting guilty verdicts because he believes that's the best shot he has at enacting justice, even if he accidentally convicts innocent people from time to time.

And to me that aligns with his reaction to finding out he unknowingly used forged evidence in 1-5. Edgeworth was so disillusioned with finding the truth that he has accepted that some collateral damage would inevitably happen as a result of his mindset. However, because he still can't let go of his dedication to the truth, he wouldn't want to lie or rewrite the facts to achieve his verdicts.

You know one thing that I absolutely hate? When one recurring joke about a character overshadows their trauma and complexity. I hate when characters are treated unseriously and frankly disrespected because of one meme or gimmick that is probably massively overused anyway. And why is it always video game characters.

I have to save him.

#i feel like i'm gonna get thrown tomatoes for this but#he's terrible for that but honestly i get it #it's the courtroom. not a therapy session #on my replay #i got to that part yesterday and i thought it would make me mad but as someone who's similar to adrian... #being slapped with reality like that works in waking you up sometimes #like yes it deeply hurts when things like that get unearthed but by ignoring it and refusing to talk about it........ it's more damaging yk #but ofc it's different for everybody #idk man.... bc considering he's also suicidal.... well. Well. it has certain implications #and imo he didn't mean it......he just wanted the truth out of her rather than telling it himself i guess #not defending him tho. irl that's unredeemable in my eyes lol <-- previous tags

No, no, you're right! And that's pretty much what I was trying to say. Ruthlessness is not inherently a good or bad trait. What Miles did was hurtful... but it was necessary in the end. And I truly love this part of his character, how he's so adamant about dragging the truth out and dismantling people's delusions. I wish this side of him was acknowledged more in the fandom.

(tw: mention of suicide) Did we, as a fandom, just collectively forget how ruthless Miles Edgeworth can be sometimes? And I’m not just talking about his demon prosecutor era, I mean also after his redemption arc. Because I was just playing through Farewell My Turnabout and watching him reveal Adrian Andrews attempted suicide in court after she begged both him and Phoenix not to… I was sitting there with my mouth open thinking: damn Edgeworth, was that really necessary??

And you know what, I love it. I love how he was ruthless in getting a guilty verdict in the past, and now he uses that ruthlessness to find the truth. Because I'm not just here for the traumatized, socially awkward, emotionally constipated, caring Edgeworth. I'm also here for the ruthless, intimidating, competent, morally grey Edgeworth. I'm not here for a watered-down version of Edgeworth. He wouldn't be my favorite character if he didn't have this nuance.

“some people don’t deserve redemption” redemption isn’t something that’s deserved, it’s something someone does. it’s making the choice to change the way you live your life, to be better, to do good things instead of bad things and try to make up for the bad things. and everyone can and should do that, at any time, no matter what they’ve done. we can’t change the past, but we can choose what kind of person to be now and in the future. we have the responsibility to do so. it is so completely not about “deserving.”

Why are my favorite ships always:

Different but in the way that they make perfect partners and achieve so much together. Believing in each other when it seems like no one else does. Different and despite that, they understand each other until they completely don't. Some kind of betrayal and at least one of them has abandonment issues. So much emotional constipation and painful pining. Childhood friends to [insert decades long mess here] to finally, finally lovers. "My heart has always been yours. Even when I hated you. Even when there was so much distance between us I thought we'd never pull through. There's no one else in this world for me. So, yes it's you, it's always been you".

And the only two that have qualified so far are Wrightworth (Phoenix + Miles from Ace Attorney) and Baavira (Baatar Jr + Kuvira from Legend of Korra). I love how Wrightworth's partnership led them to find the truth and redeem each other, while Baavira's led them to create a dictatorship and commit war crimes.

If you have any more examples of ships that fit, please let me know.

Azula's Motivations in ATLA

I haven’t been in the ATLA fandom long enough to know how popular this opinion is, but I think at her core, Azula wants to be accepted, to be loved, to belong.

I think you can tell a lot about a character by finding out what breaks them. Looking at goals can be helpful, but a lot of the times goals can mask true desires.

What truly begins to break Azula is the betrayal from Mai and Ty Lee. She's also strangely bothered by the belief that her mother thinks she's a monster. In the scene where she hallucinates her mother, Azula only breaks down and shatters the mirror when her mother says she loves her. As if Azula desperately wants it to be true but can't believe it, so she lashes out.

In the finale when Ozai leaves her behind to go destroy the earth kingdom, she says: “I thought we were going to do this together” and “you can’t treat me like Zuko”. She’s desperate to belong, to be accepted by her father. And even though she’s had his approval for her entire life, she’s immediately afraid of being cast aside.

While she is pretty obsessed with succeeding at everything she does and doing things perfectly (ie “almost isn’t good enough”), I think the real reason she’s so obsessed is because she believes she must earn her worth in order to be accepted.

Azula hasn't had many experiences with healthy relationships as a child so she makes people stay by instilling fear and proving her worth. Power and success aren't what she truly desires. They are more so a means to an end.

I also think in the last Agni Kai, she breaks down not just because she's defeated, but because Zuko and Katara defeat her together. A painful reminder that other people have support they can rely on, but she has no one.

It's also really interesting to compare her to Zuko because I don't think Zuko has the same motivation at his core. Yes Zuko became obsessed with chasing the Avatar to be accepted by his father, but really it was about his honor. Zuko saw acceptance in the Fire Nation as a means to an end for his own worth and honor.

And that's the reason Zuko isn't satisfied when he's back to belonging in the Fire Nation again in season 3. And he's not satisfied in the Earth Kingdom with his uncle's support, nor satisfied being accepted and trusted by Katara in that cave.

I'm not saying Zuko doesn't care about or want acceptance from people, just that there is something deeper motivating him.

When Azula pushes people away, it's defense mechanism. When Zuko pushes people away, he's yearning for something more.

This. Is absolutely perfect. “This isn’t a fairy tale, Wright” !!! I feel like people are forgetting something about narumitsu most of the time. Edgeworth dismantling Phoenix’s misbeliefs and savior complex in 2-4. It’s equally as important and Phoenix dismantling Edgeworth’s misbeliefs and guilt in 1-4. You cannot just have Phoenix saving Edgeworth all the time.

savior complex

Miles Edgeworth is not as soft as the fandom likes to portray him <3

His ruthlessness is a constant. Even when he "chose death" it was because he made a decision to not forgive himself.

miles edgeworth, the one who starts off callous and unrelenting, but even while falling into his lowest point, declares that he has always done what he believes is right. the character whose pivotal moment in the plot involves telling the protagonist that it's through their mutual trust that they can find the truth, basically the intellectual cousin of "the power of friendship always wins," and remains an unrelenting person throughout the narrative. this is the one fanon assigned the "tsundere" label to.

franziska von karma, the one who starts off hostile and aggressive against the protagonist, but is later revealed to be doing so out of care and concern for a loved one. the character who constantly yells "baka baka baka!" in the original text, only for that angry front to crumble into a sensitive interior when facing up to her feelings surrounding the brother she cares about. this is the one fanon portrays as put together and upfront.

how did the fandom make such a grave error