Oh no she actually mentioned using Ovid, Shakespeare's Ulysses, and other sources in an interview.
Oh neat..
However Ovid does not depict Circe being assaulted in his work thankfully. Her stories center around her unrequited love, jealousy, and the consequences of her powerful magic. The focus is on her role as a sorceress who transforms others, not as a victim.
That's a main difference that Miller has been making in her works is the useless plot device of using women's suffering and trauma for shock value.
Like miller you are ruining the source material and the image of those old poets.
If you
tell a Greek person off for merely asking foreigners to be respectful of their culture and do some research
try to disconnect Greeks from their ancient history and cultural heritage so that it will be easier for you to appropriate it and treat it as an aesthetic
use a word from their native language incorrectly with the single purpose of offending them
make snide comments about their relationship to another country when you clearly don't know the historical context (on the anniversary of a historical event that is absolutely relevant)
unfairly accuse Greeks of being supremacists and folkists because you don't understand the meaning of 'ethnicity' and even worse, you refuse to understand it
ignore all the points made by the few people that took the time to explain to you in detail why you're wrong instead of resorting to childish name-calling, like you did
you are clearly the problem. If anyone is discriminatory here, it's you.
You can't claim to appreciate Ancient Greek culture when you have no respect for the people said culture belongs to. Grow up.
If you argue with one folkist/Greek supremacist, 50 of their friends show up. It's always the pattern.
Ariadne & Dionysus
Midterms, ya know I hate em.
Personal request from my babe @xxx-theartofsuicide-xxx - all nightmare, dream, and implied hallucinatory lines throughout Beetlejuice Beetlejuice (2024).
unpopular opinion but with the new tide of Greek mythology stories and retellings, Greek Cultural Sensitivity Readings are absolutely necessary. We are in 2024, with thousands of fics and retellings out there!! How is this not a thing yet?? There's vast improvement one can achieve by working professionally on their text with a Greek. I've seen it so many times!!
Also, duh, I'm offering the service BUT I want you to know that the situation with the inaccuracies of SERIOUS works is so dire that initially I didn't even do it for money. As a writer I just wanted to... fix things, to set a new standard for writers and the industry that sells us the most heavily Americanized pop-culture material and passes it as "authentic vibes of Greek mythology". (And of course there were writers who wanted to do right by their story and they had reached out to me. So kudos to them as well!)
Okay, but why does Cultural Sensitivity Reading make a vast difference and it's not just smoke and mirrors?
As a Greek, I am tired of well-meaning writers and authors butchering very basic elements of my culture. It's not their fault exactly, since they were raised in another culture with a different perspective. And nobody clued them in on how different Greek culture is from theirs, so writers sometimes assume that their culture is the default and they project that into ancient Greece. (Even published professionals like Madeline Miller have written "UK or US in antiquity" (with a very colonialist flavor) instead of writing "Ancient Greece". (Looking at you, Circe!)
Even writers who researched a lot before coming to me still had a lot of misinformation or wrong information in their text, easily verifiable by the average Greek. Again, not their fault. They can only access certain information, which does not include Greek scholarly work and scientific articles that DO offer valuable context.
Translation, accuracy, and meaning: If you ever wondered what a word means or how to pronounce it, here's your chance! There are Greeks like me who are knowledgeable and have a keen interest in antiquity and they will be able to read and compare ancient texts, and dive deeper into the work of Greek scholars regarding those texts.
If you want to create new words, you can do that as well! (It doesn't always work, but we can try. Greek is a really rich language and has a word about everything) If you use existing words, I can help you separate reality from fantasy in the context of your story.
(Do not assume we Greeks are ignorant of our heritage, or that we don't know how to research! Our archaeology sector is huge and archaeological museums are closer to most of us than your local Target is to you)
I guarantee there are things you never thought about Greece and the Mediterranean - from the ancient to the modern era. Sprinkling elements like phrases, types of interactions, customs, songs, instruments, dances, etc , into your text will make your text absolutely rich in culture.
Names matter!!! The genders of the names matter, diminutives matter (If I see one more "Perse" for Persephone I will claw my eyes out along with a few thousand Greeks), naming traditions matter!!! In many cases you should not even use a diminutive!!
You will be able to write about a foreign culture easily! Because of the continuity of Greek culture, you can even write a few more recent Greek elements to fill in the gaps. I can make sure they are not mismatched, and they will complement your ancient setting. I have observed a few things I didn't know we had since antiquity, but they make sense because our land has certain characteristics.
Non-Greek writers often miss the whole context of Greek culture! Do you know how Greek respect towards deities and parents looks like? What tones we use when we talk to our elders? When to use honorific plural - if your setting is more modernized?
Oh, and please let's avoid caricatures when describing Greeks?? (even fantasy Greeks) There can be heavy exotisation and odd descriptions of Greeks, as if we are another species. Even in published works. For many western writers it's difficult to catch, unfortunately.
The whole process is actually way easier than you think. You send me a text, I make notes and then we have some discussion on your vision.
It's always okay to seek guidance from the locals! You are not "guilty" when you admit you don't know! How can you know if you don't ask?? You can't imagine what relief and "πάλι καλά!!!" I read/see from other Greeks when I tell them another foreigner is using me for cultural sensitivity? Greeks want you to seek help and will NOT shame you for it!
(On the contrary, you have no idea how many eye-rolls Greeks do when they see a blatantly wrong thing in a story... Which has happened pretty often for many years now. Can we do better as an industry?? Please???)
You can send me a personal message to share your story, or ask what this whole cultural sensitivity thing is all about, or ask about what I have done so far and how I can help. But for the love of all that's good, don't let your story be another "generic greek myth retelling"! And don't let others sell you their generic greek myth retellings!!
So she used Ovid but not really, just like she used Homer but not really Book Review for Circe | Thought Candy
What Odyssey did this person read
Because I highly suspect that Miller did not read the Odyssey aasdfgfdsdfghgfd
Oh no she actually mentioned using Ovid, Shakespeare's Ulysses, and other sources in an interview.
Oh neat..
However Ovid does not depict Circe being assaulted in his work thankfully. Her stories center around her unrequited love, jealousy, and the consequences of her powerful magic. The focus is on her role as a sorceress who transforms others, not as a victim.
That's a main difference that Miller has been making in her works is the useless plot device of using women's suffering and trauma for shock value.
Like miller you are ruining the source material and the image of those old poets.
Did you even read what I wrote? Here are some screenshots straight from the Riordan wiki and the books:
'the books aren’t fucking saying the locations moved' I don't know how to break it to you but IT IS LITERALLY what the books ARE saying.
In Greek mythology and tradition, places like the Labyrinth, the seat of the Gods, the seat of the Titans, the entrances to the Underworld exist in real geographical locations. We ARE talking about locations, and it's asinine for an author to think that he can just 'move' these places to the US (or anywhere in the world really) and call it a day. Let's take Mountain Olympus for example. The home of the Gods is on Olympus in Greece. The geographical placement of the Gods' home holds cultural significance that Riordan completely ignored. I'd say he ignored it deliberately. Olympus is the home of the Gods AND the mountain. It makes NO SENSE to move the home of the Gods to the Empire State Building. It makes NO SENSE to move the Labyrinth from Crete to "under some building in America".
And there is no reason for the Greek Gods and heroes to leave Greece behind other than the fact that Riordan did not care for the country whose mythology he is exploiting to sell his books.
This passage below is supposed to be from Percy's point of view but it is also Riordan's POV while he was writing his books:
'I was feeling pretty proud of myself' I bet you were, Rick. Imperialist minds usually do.
no, Rick, it's not
Like what do you mean Mount Olympus is the Empire State Building?? Last time I ckecked, Mount Olympus is a MOUNTAIN and it's in GREECE. 'Many of the locations of Greek mythology have also moved with Mount Olympus and can be found all over America'????? These are locations, not furniture!
Greece is a country that still exists, by the way, so why exactly would the Greek Gods (Greek, Rick, Greek) abandon it? Why would they leave their homeland?? Every time I remember that passage where Chiron is like "haha, Percy, western civilization is a liViNg fORce and it started in Greece" and "ohh it's a fire and the Gods follow wherever the flame is brightest uwu" I just- it's so stupid, it makes me want to pull my hair out. How on Earth did Riordan think that was okay to write? Did he really think it was valid justification for basically disconnecting the Greek gods and Greek culture from Greece and Greek people?
You know what this 'justification' reminds me of? This. They're both part of the same narrative.
Not even the camp- the goddamn camp for children whose parents are Greek Gods- is set in Greece. Riordan just made a US-flavored cake and sprinkled some Greek Mythology on top. Delicious.
Part 2
The more I reflect on the plot of Beetlejuice 2, the more I doubt that much of what happens in the film actually took place.
It's all written allegorically. Tim's work has always embodied Jungian themes such as archetypes and the shadow self, as well as his use of alchemy & numerology in the original Beetlejuice movie. For example, his use of the planet Saturn and its symbolism, as well as how he relates it back to Beetlejuice by having him wear several watches on his wrist, and freezing Adam & Wolf in time. "Sands of Time", "Saturn: the Father of Time".
You know how everyone who appears in your dreams is supposed to represent yourself?
"The images of alchemy are the most complete expression of individuation as a process, and they are therefore a valuable aid to understanding the symbolism of dreams." - Carl Jung
Astrid wears a silver dress, Lydia wears a red dress. In alchemy, (something Jung believed was a method to understand the psyche within our dreams) silver needs to be purified by red. Combined, these colours symbolise the union of spirit and matter, or the balance of opposing forces, essential for the completion of the alchemical process. So we have Astrid and Lydia symbolising the spiritual (silver/mercury) and the material (red/sulfur). This is why Lydia watches Astrid at the end of the dream getting married and having a baby. She is watching her dream representation living out her material desires.
They completed the alchemical process by fixing their relationship (forgiving yourself).
Astrid is so similar to Lydia, even storming off on her bike when Rory proposed. Rory also pushes Lydia to do the Ghost House show when we know that exploiting the dead is very OOC for her. If Astrid is Lydia, then Rory must represent her teenage feelings towards her parents. Her father married Delia who teen Lydia couldn't stand, and they both forced Lydia to move with them and adjust to their lifestyle.
Astrid and Lydia reconciling is Lydia reconciling with her past self. Through silver and red, spirit and matter, this is the completion of the alchemical process. Why did they put Delia in a purple dress alongside these two, when purple in alchemy symbolises the transmutation outcome? They could have chosen any colours, but the ones chosen just so happen to correspond with the story. Silver is spirit, Red is matter, Purple is the merging of spirit & matter, resulting in "enlightenment". You say Beetlejuice's name three times because in alchemy it's the number of completion (sulfur, mercury, salt).
And I must repeat myself: there is no clear indication of where Astrid's dream sequence begins. The sequence at the end seems to start after Lydia looks at the Maitlands' model with the lights as stars above her. Lydia is looking down at the town (the material realm), while her head is in the stars (the spiritual realm).
The whole Beetlejuice franchise is about alchemy, because Betelgeuse himself is an alchemist. He is the Trickster/Magician archetype, who is able to manipulate reality and able to traverse between the living and the dead, also known as rebirth.
Alchemical texts were concerned with achieving the coniunctio oppositorum (the union of opposites). This process is also known as "The Marriage of Opposites" or "Chemical Wedding". Whose marriage/wedding was important to the plot in both movies?
Delia finds her masculine self (Charles) thanks to Betelgeuse at the Soul Train. The Soul Train is the ferry which carries souls along the River Styx. It's the main river in the underworld that separates the living and the dead.
"The living and the dead; can they co-exist?" - Lydia Deetz
So, Lydia was watching Astrid (her dream self) get married and have the Beetlebaby. Everything Astrid goes through is a mixture of Lydia's fears and desires. Lydia's teen self feared that Betelgeuse was using Lydia as a way to have access to the living realm, and we know this because of Astrid's experience with Jeremy. However, by this logic, it also means Lydia desires marriage and a baby with Betelgeuse. Unfortunately, Lydia is in the material realm, while her masculine self is in the spiritual realm.
Canonically speaking, since we know Lydia loves horror films, dreaming of giallo movies aligns much better with her character than ignoring her ability to speak to the dead.
In Greece, the 25th of March is a day of great religious and national importance. Along with the celebration of the Annunciation of the Virgin Mary, it is the Greek Independence Day, when is celebrated and commemorated the symbolic declaration in the monastery of Agia Lavra (Achaia,Peloponnesus) of the revolution against the Ottoman Turks, occupants of Greece. Thus began the Greek War of Independence (1821-1830),which would lead to the gradual liberation of Greece and the creation of the modern Greek state.
The countless heroic and tragic episodes of this long and bloody war,and many of its extraordinary protagonists, have inspired through time many artists,both European and Greek, to create portraits, sprawling battle scenes and introspective historical works.
These are some of them.
Click on the works to see the title and artist.
This is a series,and this is part 2.
Important research
Define "burger" and "american" however you want. Vote with ur heart.