Did You Even Read Them?

I'm Greek and I'm fed up

^^^^^^^ All of this.

There's a difference between 'telling your own version' of a myth, and telling a completely different story. If you need to change a pre-existing character so much that they feel like a new character, then it's simply bad writing.

Miller is especially self-righteous about her retellings in interviews. Are her retellings 'other versions' of the myths? If by 'other versions' you mean distorting the mythology and missing its point, or utilizing foreign mythology as an aesthetic to draw people in, then yeah, I guess.

Readers who are ignorant of the myths or have no respect for the culture those myths belong to, will then take Miller's distorted stories as fact, and assume that hers is the correct way of telling them. And, evidently, Miller's fans will not tolerate anyone criticizing her.

Well I promise you that her books give the opposite impression.

In fact, her characterization of Patroclus alone is enough for me to doubt her both as an academic and as a researcher.

(Not to mention her tendency to invent unnecessary details, things that don't happen in the myths, like Circe getting assaulted, which was specifically added to 'justify' Circe's behaviour in the Odyssey. A+ writing, how very progressive)

A classicist like Miller should know that when you apply modern standards to an ancient myth, essentially removing it from the era in which it was written, and ignoring the reasons the myth was created, then you're missing half of the context.

Either she

has severely misunderstood the characters in the Homeric epics and Greek mythology in general (which doesn't say much about her as a classicist), or

she does understand the characters in the myths, but she cares more about what kind of story will 'sell'. She's thinking, "Let's see, if I frame Homer as problematic, and promote my books as the solution to the 'Homer problem', then of course people will prefer my stories."

If it's the latter, it's not a surprise, and she's not the first person to do it, and unfortunately she won't be the last.

@rightwheretheyleftme I think you're going into these retellings without fully grasping the purpose and cultural value of Greek mythology. I think you're glorifying these retellings regardless of how off the mark they are when it comes to characterization.

@lez-exclude-men If you're enjoying Miller's books that much, then I hate to break it to you, but you are the one who needs to get 'elbows deep' in research. But if you have no desire to do all that work, maybe you shut up and let people express their opinions? Miller's work is flawed, and we are allowed to point it out.

This isn't about Miller being a woman, and it isn't about all retellings being inherently bad. This is about Miller not respecting and not understanding the mythology she's so eager to 'fix'.

So Madeline Miller is writing a Persephone retelling. So let's make our bets about the book.

The winners will win this picture of a brick.

So let's make a bet.

A.) She will potray Demeter as an abusive mother, whaile the kidnapping will be ereased, and Hades will be baby boyfied.

B.) Hades will be potrayd as eveil incarnate, and Demeter will be potrayd as a poor poor blorbo (similar to how she potrayd Circe)

C.) Both will be potrayd as the worst. Demeter, and Hades will be potrayd as abusive, and Persephone will be potrayd as a poor poor girl who always has to suffer.

My bet is that it will be C.).

I'm thinking of doing a babes week this spring/summer

Everyone is welcome to participate!

The prompts we've got this far are

- Mirror

- Cemetery

- Favorite holiday

- Rock

- Beach

Suggestions are appreciated 🌞

Beetlejuice Fan Theory

Okay, so I’ve already shared this with several of you, but I thought it would be neat to post it here in case anyone out there was interested in adding on or joining the discussion. I am absolutely CONVINCED that Betelgeuse knew he was going to try and marry Lydia before the Maitlands ever summoned him. Here are the events as we know them to have passed:

Lydia spots the Maitlands through the window and they comment on it, in full view of the model. 

Lydia receives the skeleton key from Jane.

Cue Betelgeuse’s commercial. The Maitlands immediately leave for the Neitherworld. 

Lydia enters the attic, picks up the handbook, sits down, starts reading.

The Maitlands return three months later and Juno says “I believe he’s been sleazing around your cemetery.”

When the Maitlands FINALLY summon Beej, he goes out of his way to make it look like he’s still trapped in the model- but he’s not. He says to their faces “you want to get some people out of your house. I want to get SOMEBODY out of your house.“ 

From this point on until the end of the snake scene, when Barbara calls him back, Betelgeuse has free roam of the house. Juno even explicitly scolds the Maitlands, telling them “you took Betelgeuse out and you did not put him back!”(sidenote; I can’t help but wonder what he was doing during those hours)

Later, Delia comments that there’s no way anyone could get into the attic because it’s locked. This tells us that Lydia never turned over the skeleton key. Charles kept the study for himself. Lydia keeps the attic. 

We KNOW that Lydia never gave up the skeleton key. This means that if she did continue visiting the attic during those three months(of course she did, why wouldn’t she?) she would have had to sneak around to do it without arousing Delia’s suspicion(cause Delia would take the attic and turn it into a god awful trendy mess given the chance). Which means she was probably only there late at night… wink wink nudge nudge naughty, naughty girl ;)

PLEASE if anyone would like to add on to this, dispute my claims, or contribute a theory of your own, feel free to do so. 

no, Rick, it's not

Like what do you mean Mount Olympus is the Empire State Building?? Last time I ckecked, Mount Olympus is a MOUNTAIN and it's in GREECE. 'Many of the locations of Greek mythology have also moved with Mount Olympus and can be found all over America'????? These are locations, not furniture!

Greece is a country that still exists, by the way, so why exactly would the Greek Gods (Greek, Rick, Greek) abandon it? Why would they leave their homeland?? Every time I remember that passage where Chiron is like "haha, Percy, western civilization is a liViNg fORce and it started in Greece" and "ohh it's a fire and the Gods follow wherever the flame is brightest uwu" I just- it's so stupid, it makes me want to pull my hair out. How on Earth did Riordan think that was okay to write? Did he really think it was valid justification for basically disconnecting the Greek gods and Greek culture from Greece and Greek people?

You know what this 'justification' reminds me of? This. They're both part of the same narrative.

Not even the camp- the goddamn camp for children whose parents are Greek Gods- is set in Greece. Riordan just made a US-flavored cake and sprinkled some Greek Mythology on top. Delicious.

Tethys: Titaness, daughter of Uranus and Gaia, wife of Oceanus and mother of the Oceanids. She was also Hera’s foster mother during the Titanomachy.

Styx: Oceanid, Zeus’ ally in the Titanomachy, mother of Nike, Zelus, Bia and Kratos. She’s the river that separates the Underworld from the living, and the one Gods swear their oaths upon.

Metis: Oceanid, the embodiment of wisdom and cunning, Athena’s mother by Zeus. She helped Zeus free his siblings and was his counsellor during the Titanomachy. 

Electra: Oceanid, she married the sea god Thaumas, and one of her kids was Iris, the messenger of the Gods. I drew her hair like that because her name derives from the word ἤλεκτρον, which means amber, and amber can acquire a static electricity charge. 

Five: I married a mannequin.

*shows everyone a picture of Dolores*

Five: We don't need counseling.

Different answers you can give to “there shouldn't be people of color playing the gods in Percy Jackson since they were Greek”.

Broke: The gods can be played by people of any race because they're not real.

Woke: The gods can be played by people of any race as, because they're not human, we have never been able to see them in their true forms. We would burst into flames if we did. The depiction we see of them in statues was done in the image of the models that posed for them. Also race politics weren't the same in Ancient times as they are know, especially in the USA. Some territories that are know considered Middle Eastern were considered Hellenic back them and they worshiped these gods. Because of this, artists and worshipers of these regions imagined the gods in their image, just like we nowadays can see depictions of Jesus in different races.

Now let's discuss why Hollywood loves to cast Central or Northern European descent actors to play Mediterranean humans and demigods such as Hector or Achilles.