Hey, so definitely don't go into more details than you feel comfortable with but if you can, could you elaborate on systems forming pseudomemories because they researched programming? Like developing completely false memories of programming when they aren't, or?
Hey constellation!
To be completely honest, I don’t know how well I could do that because I’m in heavy denial for the memories I currently have. I often try to tell myself they’re not real/they are pseudomemories so that I can like…feel better, I guess. Lol. Iykyk.
The reason I said that is because of what I read when I looked into RAMCOA, including alllllll of the warnings that were given to me from other victims of RAMCOA and ignored them like a dumbass and researched anyway.
They told me it was super common for non-RAMCOA systems to get pseudomemories. I honestly don’t remember how they explained it, I apologize. Something along the lines of “if you hear about a trauma situation that vaguely seems like it could make sense you may jump to conclusions” sort of thing. Gonna do like a really basic example here:
If you have a phobia of spiders (common in anyone really) but you read about a trauma scenario involving torture with spiders you might be like “Oh GOD! I have a spider phobia! I must have spider related trauma!” And anyone can be good at running with an idea and overthinking and imagining all these horrible scenarios.
HOWEVER
This is not always the case. If you feel you have genuine programming or memories regarding them it’s probably best to NOT fuck around and find out and find a specialist that can treat that because if you poke the bear it can get hella messy. It’s better to be safe than sorry. It’s better to realize they are pseudomemories later than assume they’re pseudomemories and dig deeper to figure out the “real memory” and realize that IS the real memory and massively destabilize the system.
However! (x2)
I stand by my original reply to that one person that if you haven’t already looked into RAMCOA, Don’t. You will not find good things. Whether you have progs or not. It’s not a fun thing to read about.
TW on this next part for what progging would be used for, NOT detailed at all, just be aware that I will be talking briefly about CSA/MC/suicide related things.
Wanna add that not all programming is done the same. I sorta brushed past that in that last reply, but I wanna make it more clear: not all programmers are super skilled or have done it a lot to make a fully programmed system. This sort of thing takes massive amounts of work. YEARS of work. And the stuff that happens is usually massively fucked up. I can only imagine some people not involved in a literal organized cult who specializes in this stuff who try will give up for some reason or another, or may not do it “well enough” or may modify things they’ve learned from other proggers to fit their own needs. Programming/mind control is usually done to fit the abusers/proggers needs, which means one’s programming could be at the level of like “Monarch Program” shit or like, more simple MC/progging for sex-related tasks or compliance or suicide programs for protection of the abusers.
Hope that answers your question. DMs are open, I’m absolutely okay to talk about this stuff carefully.
-Dorian
Here is your reminder that masks and vaccines are not ritual abuse or trauma based mind control and comparing covid restrictions and pandemic safety measures to literal torture and various forms of abuse is peak stupidity
Do you know any credible sources on “programming” specifically? I am unclear on the actual definition, I think I went through some things that could be described that way but I don’t understand the difference between “programming” and “grooming” trafficking victims. I previously have only really heard explanations on what programming supposedly is from untrustworthy, conspiracy-ish sources talking about like government mind-control in pop music, but I don’t want to disregard the whole concept if there is better information or research on it.
The term "programming", as I understand it, has fallen out of academic favor due to the connections you mention. Because of this, its definition is somewhat fluid, but I'd generally define programming as:
"The process of using trauma-induced dissociation to implant specific sets of instructions, messages, learned associations, and triggers to produce desired behavior in a victim. It is, at its essence, an extreme form of conditioning, and relies on the use of dissociated parts (alters) to effectively control the victim's mind."
Another source, ra-info.org (one of the oldest sites about RAMCOA on the internet) puts it this way:
"Programming refers both to the process of teaching part of the mind unquestioned obedience and to the content of what is taught. Thus you can say that a person has been programmed to suicide under certain conditions, or you can talk about a suicide program that is triggered (activated) by certain words or conditions."
Grooming for trafficking purposes may or may not use programming methods, as programming requires a level environmental control that not all situations can muster. Programming also typically involves... Well, weirder, more intense stuff. For example, most trafficking operations are not going to use spin programming, but rely more on basic cause & effect. Additionally, grooming may have more of a focus on positive reinforcement, while programming typically doesn't.
And programming is just one end of a large spectrum that encompasses many forms of conditioning, grooming, and abuse; some cases may have some elements of programming (like manipulating dissociative responses to create alters) while not having the structure necessary to do a good job of it. (That's what our case looked like!) Trafficking organizations may not have the money, access, space, or time to implement full programs.
But sources that mention programming by name do exist, and most give their own definition of programming. I'll throw them under a cut because this post is already getting long.
Dialogues With Forgotten Voices by Harvey Schwartz (2000). Generally a great resource so far, I haven't read all of it but what I have gone through is enlightening. Programming is mentioned all through the book but 330 is where more specifics are discussed. Index starts at page 499 so you can peruse topics by your own discretion. His other book, The Alchemy of Wolves & Sheep, covers similar ground (RAMCOA) but with a unique focus (forced perpetration). It's in my pinned post.
Both of Alison Miller's Books, Healing the Unimaginable (2011) and Becoming Yourself (2014). Many survivors swear by these books, and they use the term "programming" throughout. I haven't read these yet but you'll see them referenced constantly.
Safe Passage to Healing by Chrystine Oksana (1994). Another "classic", another book I haven't touched yet. Discusses programming quite a bit and is meant for survivors.
Many of Steven Hassan's works use programming in a slightly more "casual" manner from what I can see—referring to brainwashing at any age in the contexts of cults, as that's Hassan's focus—but helpful for many regardless.
Spin Programming: A Newly Uncovered Technique of Systematic Mind Control by John Lovern (1993) and Common Programs Observed in Survivors of Satanic Ritualistic Abuse by Neswald, Gould, and Graham-Costain (1991). Lumping these together despite the different authors because they're in my "I can't 100% trust these but the information is, in general, useful and many survivors share these" category. The first also includes sketches by survivors, but we're partial to the second one because we don't have spin programming.
On top of this list, there are HUNDREDS of sources that do not use the term "programming" but regardless, refer to similar processes. Too many to list. I hope this is a good starting point though!
Dictionary definition: Poly = A prefix meaning “many, Fragmented = adjective. reduced to fragments. existing or functioning as though broken into separate parts; disorganized; disunified
Polyfragmentation is unusual in that there is no actual definition for the term. There are many definitions out there, but no definition is agreed upon by a majority either within academic realms or socially.
We see this sometimes with other DID/OSDD terms such as “integration” being used to mean two (almost opposite) things.
With polyfragmentation there are many different definitions, with some focusing on number of parts, some on internal system structure, etc. But even those who insist that the definition revolves around numerical value (the number of alters/parts), there is no accepted and agreed upon number. And so, we will look at the possible definitions, socially vs scientifically/medically.
Keep reading
A new OSDD/DID combo cheat for terror/panic attack!
- keeping the eyes open to minimize flooding and switching, looking at an object in the room that was gotten in the last calendar year to ground in the present
- heavy stuffy on the chest
- EMDR bilateral music in headphones
- alternate thumbs rubbing on stuffy
- eventually when able to move more, alternate palms rubbing slowly on stuffy's back
- repeating "of course you're scared, that makes total sense, you can be scared right now and we'll hold you" worked for today
- pat the stuffy, soothe the scared part, slow soft pats like on a baby's bum or back to gentle them
- gradually, sit up/change positions and rock and stim to release the rest of the adrenaline/energy
- eventually did a reorienting exercise to ground in the present
The terror ebbed a lot gentler and sooner than I expected! Very proud and grateful. Love having a stuffy with heavy beads in it.
Instagram credit: comewithkris
Hand Knitted Crime Scene Caution Tape
Anyone who has intimately experienced the current state of psychiatry in the US (notably child psychiatry) can attest to its inefficiency and its potential to do more harm than good. Patients are often issued sets of conflicting diagnoses; BPD, bipolar disorder, PTSD, ADHD and ect. Many of them fail to clarify the true nature of the problem and those who do receive treatment beyond being handed a prescription don’t seem to gain anything from it. Well, guess what?
TIL that in 2009, after years of prospective studies and a letter of support written by mental health commissioners from across the US, the National Child Traumatic Stress Network sent in a formal proposition for Developmental Trauma Disorder to the APA (American Psychiatric Association) to be included in the DSM-V. And guess what?
It was denied. Just as it took all the way until 1980 to have PTSD accepted as a diagnosis in the wake of a generation of war-time trauma, so too is the notion that dysfunctional responses are the natural consequence of issues occurring during the span of childhood and adolescent development. The APA responded by saying that “no new diagnosis was required to fill a ‘missing diagnostic niche.’” This is of course, in the face of a hard numbers: that one-million children are abused and neglected every year in the US.
There is an incredible amount of evidence to suggest that not only is Childhood Developmental Trauma a Thing, but that without having a proper diagnosis to work from, clinical professionals are finding themselves woefully inept at making any progress with their patients. So you know, if you feel like you’re just “fucked up” and you’re convinced that you were born that way, maybe this can be your first step to realizing that no—you’re not “just” anything. If you were raised in a consistently dysfunctional household, all available research suggests your body internalized that, became hyperaware of threat and caused you to develop accordingly.
You did nothing wrong—it was and continues to be the adults in your life that fail you. You have done nothing but respond to your circumstances in the only way your body knows how.
For those interested in learning more about this, I urge you to read The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk and to look into the research done by Kolk, Perry and other professionals on DTD. Warning to survivors: the book pulls no punches and such, can be very triggering. Tumblr no longer tags anything that includes external links, so I ask that you send me a reply or a message in the event you’d like some actual materials.
Note: I am not a professional in this field, so I urge people with actual credentials to elaborate, because I know ya’ll are out there and you’re just as mad about this shit as I am.
TW: DISCUSSION OF PROGRAMMING, CULT MENTION (RAMCOA), AND TBMC MENTION. STAY SAFE!!!
Being polyfrag and having programmed parts is so weird. Like one example, having layers is super weird because I don’t even who know the host or co-host are. I don’t know who most of the system is, as our area only has around 22 parts (small for us). Though, I suppose it’s probably for protection as most are programmed and all but one (I think???) has nothing directly to do with any trauma.
Speaking of programming, our host is in huge denial of it!! In our journal xe’re like “yeah we have parts that literally follow a mysterious religious figure nobody has ever heard of and we have parts that are like practicing extremely loyal sex cult followers and parts for enduring TBMC as well as all the symptoms of programmed aka HC-DID but I can’t remember any of it so it must be quirkiness” like ??????? It’s almost as if you’re a supposed to be like that XD
And that’s not even mentioning how large our system is!!! We have exactly 90 logged parts, a little over 3/4s of which are fragments. I know Ellie and probably some others are also questioning if they’re a subsystem (in the alter with alters way) because of slight amnesia and slightly differing roles. And I know that the 90 known, even if nobody known is a subsystem, are not all of us.
We have times where we black out and we don’t know who fronted, but it appears to be somebody who hasn’t been logged. There have been times where we are doing one thing and all of a sudden we’re somewhere doing something we didn’t know we would do, and nobody knows who it was.
There’s so much to us, it’s like an iceberg except the parts of the iceberg don’t know the other parts, and the pieces of the iceberg above and below the surface don’t know the other exists. So strange!!!
Read an article about repressed anger and I'm kinda just messed up because I checked all 15 boxes.
Here's 15 signs you may have repressed anger:
1. You are busy all the time. Keeping busy is a sure fire way to have no time to feel things. This might include being quite codependent, taking care of other people’s issues instead of your own. And it often includes being a workaholic.
2. You are never angry but have constant mild depression. The problem with blocking one emotion is that it often messes up or blocks our ability to feel other emotions, too, like joy and excitement. It also takes a lot of psychological energy to keep things repressed in our minds which can leave us feeling drained, leaving some to call depression ‘anger turned inwards’.
3. You are known for your sarcastic humour.Repressed anger often parades as sarcasm, meanness, or an apathetic ‘I don’t care’ attitude.
4. You self-sabotage often. Perhaps you are always late getting to work, are a student who skips classes, or don’t respond to opportunities you want until it’s too late and you’ve missed the boat.
5. You hate rejection. The habit of repressing anger often stems from growing up in a household where showing emotion led to being silently ostracised. This can leave you a grownup with a deep fear of being rejected that surfaces in your relationships. It can also show up in your work environment, where you might get told you are oversensitive to criticism.
6. Little things really bother you. Perhaps you are the one in the office always complaining if someone puts back the milk carton into the fridge with only a drop left in it, or the one at the gym who feels really upset if someone doesn’t wipe down equipment they have used. This is because bigger repressed anger is seeking an outlet and it comes out in the form of frustration and annoyance.
7. You suffer muscle tension. Anger has to go somewhere, and often it goes to our body, leading to a tense jaw, sore upper back, or a constant tense stomach that can lead to ulcers (if this is you, you might want to try progressive muscle relaxation).
8. You suffer from ongoing fatigue, many colds or flu, or perhaps chronic pain. As well as muscle tension repressed anger can lead to anxiety, which affects sleep, which then lowers your immune system. As for chronic pain, some specialists believe that psychogenic pain (physical pain caused or exacerbated by mental and emotional factors) can be a distraction to keep oneself away from repressed emotions, although this is still considered a controversial theory.
9. You have nervous habits. Things like nail biting, chewing the inside of your mouth, orpicking at your skin can all be signs of repressed anger.
10. You struggle with addictive behaviour. It doesn’t have to be drugs or alcohol. It might be that you are a shopaholic, a love addict, an over-exerciser, or a food addict. Addiction is often a way to distract ourselves from things that feel painful, and if we are in pain over something, we are often very angry about it, too.
11. You need to be in control of your life. If we are controlling emotions, it can lead to a desire to also control our exterior environment.
12. You’ve been accused of being passive aggressive. Passive aggression happens when instead of expressing our anger directly we do it indirectly. This can include things like being nice to someone’s face but gossiping about them behind their back, or telling a partner we aren’t angry about something important like how they spent the month’s budget but calling them lazy for not putting the rubbish out.
13. You have trouble saying no. As healthy anger is what leads us to set boundaries, never showing anger often means never saying no or even realising that you can.
14. On the rare occasion you do get upset, it tends to be a blowout. You might only get properly upset once a year, but it tends to be explosive and something others live in fear of. This is what happens when there is a build up of emotions.
15. You feel happy all the time, just pure peace and love. This kind of belief about oneself generally points to some deep-rooted denial. The human mind and emotional system is not one-sided. Nobody feels great all the time. If we did, we’d never learn anything, as we grow from being challenged and by contrast – which includes not always liking what other people do and say.
Hi we’er the Mountain cap collectiveCPTSD,C-DID,ASD,Low empathy because of abuse, CSA survivorAsk pronouns, but you can just use they/them for anybody
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