A Comic About The Spectrum Of Responses To Stress - We Talk Alot About The More Extreme Ends Of This

Do you have any advice for how to approach a situation where you find out that the system is much bigger than you originally thought and there has been like another group of people functioning deeper inside your mind because I just found out that our system runs so much deeper than I thought it did and it's kinda freaking me out.

Thanks

(Also I love your blog)

Hey anon,

I've had this in my ask box for a few days trying to figure out how to answer this in a way that would be helpful and insightful. A big goal of mine for my future is to be able to educate people and help people with and without CDDs who are in places that I or my wife/friends may have been in the past. This situation you're describing is something I went through right around mid August. The only reason I actually know when I started learning these things was because I have a frantic email I sent my therapist with the subject line "Ah shit, here we go again" with a screenshot of that very quote from GTA. It's an inside joke between our therapist and I because it seems like whenever something really wild happens that I really didn't see coming I preface with "Ah shit, here we go again." and that's how she knows it's going to be a doozy of a session or email.

(small TW ahead for mentions of unaliving oneself, nothing detailed, just mentioned)

So in all honesty I feel like I don't have super proper advice for you in this regard. Not in the way you may have been hoping or wanting, as I am still new to learning parts and subsystems. I know about four subsystems right now, other parts keep alluding to something else that's hidden from me that's like a Big thing, and it's a...it's a lot! I understand how you're feeling to some degree here. The very first time I started piecing together the subsystem stuff I swore I was ready to do the unalive. And uh, unfortunately, I almost did because of parts who were created to commit suicide in this very instance. I wasn't supposed to know about that stuff. Past suicide attempts seem to line up with that same narrative. Every time I was learning something I was not supposed to know, one of our secondary gatekeepers would throw a suicidal alter into the front and essentially let it happen. Thankfully, we've had either our spouse or other alters be able to step in at the last second, parts that don't want these things to occur. We're working on deconstructing that particular program now and it's been fairly successful, thankfully.

I talk about that not because I think all systems with subsystems or whatever happens going on in your system have suicide programs, but because this information you are suddenly learning is likely meant to be hidden. Subsystems typically don't occur for shits and giggles. From my limited knowledge (reminder, I am not a professional at this so if anyone has better info than me or any additional info or resources, please say so) of subsystems, typically they form for specific purposes. One purpose could be to separate various traumas at different time periods of the system's life. So for example, we have an entire subsystem (our largest subsystem as far as I know) dedicated to our very early life trauma that began long before our RAMCOA type abuse occurred. Those things happened likely around the ages of 3 to 5. The RAMCOA abuse occurred around age 7 or so, as far as I'm aware. None of the main system or any of the other subsystems were aware of the early life subsystem, only our gatekeepers knew about them.

Other reasons subsystems can occur is to separate a specific type of abuse that the system/brain finds particularly disturbing and needs to be separated from the rest of the system. We don't have these, but I've heard of folks whose main system typically has the "less severe" trauma and subsystems hold "more severe" trauma OR trauma that needs to be kept completely deep down and away from the front area, like CSEM production OR incest with a member of their household that they have to live with all the time. If you're around that family member all the time you're not going to be able to function if you have even an inkling of those things occurring, so your brain might separate all of that into a subsystem to keep the rest of the system safe. While the rest of the system might deal with other forms of trauma such as neglect, medical trauma, emotional abuse/manipulation, bullying, etc.

The last reason that subsystems might exist, and this is only our personal experience because I have never met another system whose subsystems are like this, but subsystems may exist to keep certain parts of memories separate from the rest of the system. Which, I've mentioned I was going to go into our system structure in more detail before and so I'm not going to do a deep dive in this ask, but essentially as abuse was escalating, our system realized that a single alter cannot hold the entire memory of abuse that was occurring, and so what happened was we'd split a fragment (which our system labels as "china dolls" even though they're really not that) and they get cracked apart and split up, essentially. So one subsystem holds only the pain of that particular memory, another subsystem holds only the emotional toll of that particular memory, another subsystem holds only the visual or auditory sensations of that particular memory, etc. So, in essence, for a single occurrence of trauma, a splitting pattern happens where we end up splitting anywhere from 2-5 fragments to hold bits and pieces of a single memory. So those subsystems keep those fragments separated so that we don't have to be overwhelmed by the entire memory being whole.

From all of the above information it's probably going to make subsystems sound like a super horrific thing, and while I really want to be comforting and help you through this with some encouragement, subsystems are typically because something happened that needed to be kept completely separate from the rest of the system, which is usually not a good thing.

However, to actually answer your question, how to cope? Um. Good question, because I'm barely coping with my own situation right now. BUT, one thing that has helped me kind of stop freaking out about it is that I have accepted that I will learn things when the time is right. Every time I've tried to go digging or I got curious or something I regretted it. I learned very quickly WHY these things are separate. I learned as a host that I really really should not fuck around because I WILL find out, and it has pretty much every single time been far more devastating that I could have even imagined.

So my advice to you is "Don't go digging!" Because often, system information (especially if you're currently in therapy with a specialist) will become known with time. Be patient. Don't do the "nosy host" thing unless you are in an environment where you have someone who knows what's going on and can keep you safe in case you learn something very distressing that will make you want to go down the sewer slide. Being a system is not a fun time when you're discovering this stuff. I'm very open about loving our system and loving our parts and thanking them for what they've done for me, but that doesn't erase how difficult and scary it can be when you start learning things that you never knew you never knew. Hang in there, anon. DMs are open if you want to discuss this further. Anyone is free to DM or send asks about these things and I'll answer when I can. :)

-Dorian

(Note: Endos please do not interact with this post, as subsystems are a product of serious trauma and are not something that I think could ever be replicated in the way that a traumagenic system's subsystems would occur. They require extreme levels of amnesia and are typically complex, something that a created system would very likely not be able to replicate in the way like OP and I are talking about. This post is for folks with trauma-based CDDs only, not other forms of plurality.)

Question, would maladaptive daydreaming about the torture also, counties as creative expression of the trauma? Also, please stop calling us out/j

On expression of trauma in childhood through creative means

(CW/TW: Abuse, Torture, Trafficking, etc.)

I've seen lots of survivors of various kinds of abuse, particularly RAMCOA, post recently about how either one of the first signs they were abused in that way, or something they rediscovered/recalled later on, was that during childhood they often re-enacted traumatic scenarios or scenarios similar through games, or playground role-playing. Expression of trauma and abuse through creative means is very common in childhood - scientifically, it's more difficult for anyone to express their trauma through verbal means than it is through art, or etc, and this is the basis for art & play therapies commonly used with children and younger patients. It's a recognised phenomenon in psychology that there are certain markers in children's art for trauma, as it alters one's self perception to go through these experiences, especially in youth. So, in reference to RAMCOA/OEA in particular - recreating these situations in childhood games is perfectly normal, and if you feel this is an experience that resonates with you, you're not at all alone.

RAMCOA changes one's perception of what is normal, and intentionally so, and so to see a child express this through games which would ordinarily be much more domestic - like playing house, whereas a survivor might reenact a scene of torture, or an imagined trafficking ring - is a child survivor expressing a scenario which is normal for them without having to acknowledge it verbally through any means. This extends again to art, and writings, etc - if you look back on the "ordinary" parts of your childhood, and feel the trauma bleeds into those regardless, this is perfectly normal. Even if you feel that at the time you shouldn't have known about those things, or that you didn't see them with nearly the weight that they should have carried - all of this is okay. Everyone works things out at their own pace. All of us survived.

— Muse

Here are some resources on childhood trauma expression through art:

Psychology Today

When Trauma Happens, Children Draw: Part I

When trauma happens, children draw.

Frontiers

Children’s drawings as a projective tool to explore and prevent experiences of mistreatment and/or sexual abuse

Reality shows us that situations of mistreatment and sexual abuse in childhood are still seldom visible, despite their high prevalence aroun

Do you know any credible sources on “programming” specifically? I am unclear on the actual definition, I think I went through some things that could be described that way but I don’t understand the difference between “programming” and “grooming” trafficking victims. I previously have only really heard explanations on what programming supposedly is from untrustworthy, conspiracy-ish sources talking about like government mind-control in pop music, but I don’t want to disregard the whole concept if there is better information or research on it.

The term "programming", as I understand it, has fallen out of academic favor due to the connections you mention. Because of this, its definition is somewhat fluid, but I'd generally define programming as:

"The process of using trauma-induced dissociation to implant specific sets of instructions, messages, learned associations, and triggers to produce desired behavior in a victim. It is, at its essence, an extreme form of conditioning, and relies on the use of dissociated parts (alters) to effectively control the victim's mind."

Another source, ra-info.org (one of the oldest sites about RAMCOA on the internet) puts it this way:

"Programming refers both to the process of teaching part of the mind unquestioned obedience and to the content of what is taught. Thus you can say that a person has been programmed to suicide under certain conditions, or you can talk about a suicide program that is triggered (activated) by certain words or conditions."

Grooming for trafficking purposes may or may not use programming methods, as programming requires a level environmental control that not all situations can muster. Programming also typically involves... Well, weirder, more intense stuff. For example, most trafficking operations are not going to use spin programming, but rely more on basic cause & effect. Additionally, grooming may have more of a focus on positive reinforcement, while programming typically doesn't.

And programming is just one end of a large spectrum that encompasses many forms of conditioning, grooming, and abuse; some cases may have some elements of programming (like manipulating dissociative responses to create alters) while not having the structure necessary to do a good job of it. (That's what our case looked like!) Trafficking organizations may not have the money, access, space, or time to implement full programs.

But sources that mention programming by name do exist, and most give their own definition of programming. I'll throw them under a cut because this post is already getting long.

Dialogues With Forgotten Voices by Harvey Schwartz (2000). Generally a great resource so far, I haven't read all of it but what I have gone through is enlightening. Programming is mentioned all through the book but 330 is where more specifics are discussed. Index starts at page 499 so you can peruse topics by your own discretion. His other book, The Alchemy of Wolves & Sheep, covers similar ground (RAMCOA) but with a unique focus (forced perpetration). It's in my pinned post.

Both of Alison Miller's Books, Healing the Unimaginable (2011) and Becoming Yourself (2014). Many survivors swear by these books, and they use the term "programming" throughout. I haven't read these yet but you'll see them referenced constantly.

Safe Passage to Healing by Chrystine Oksana (1994). Another "classic", another book I haven't touched yet. Discusses programming quite a bit and is meant for survivors.

Many of Steven Hassan's works use programming in a slightly more "casual" manner from what I can see—referring to brainwashing at any age in the contexts of cults, as that's Hassan's focus—but helpful for many regardless.

Spin Programming: A Newly Uncovered Technique of Systematic Mind Control by John Lovern (1993) and Common Programs Observed in Survivors of Satanic Ritualistic Abuse by Neswald, Gould, and Graham-Costain (1991). Lumping these together despite the different authors because they're in my "I can't 100% trust these but the information is, in general, useful and many survivors share these" category. The first also includes sketches by survivors, but we're partial to the second one because we don't have spin programming.

On top of this list, there are HUNDREDS of sources that do not use the term "programming" but regardless, refer to similar processes. Too many to list. I hope this is a good starting point though!

I am seriously thinking about making a big post about this

Can people stop pushing the idea that you shouldn’t share information about RAMCOA at all? Yeah, sharing detailed information about programming publicly or with people who don’t need it can be dangerous, but it’s already such a taboo topic to the point where a lot of survivors feel like they can’t even speak up about what happened to them. And they have the right to, they endured it.

If you’re saying “be careful how much you share about programming” that’s valid. I’ve seen a lot of people saying that and that makes perfect sense. But “don’t talk about RAMCOA” do people not realize that’s what many of the perpetrators of this type of abuse want? They want total silence. They go to insane lengths just to ensure survivors can’t talk about this. They thrive off secrecy. They’re protected by people’s ignorance. This is a widespread issue that requires a societal effort to put a stop to. How will that happen if people aren’t educated on the fact that this happens, at the very least?

I know a lot of people can use this info to hurt people or get some sick pleasure from hearing about the abuse. But that doesn’t take away the need for this to be heard and known about. Stop silencing survivors.

the brain is literally so fucking cool

here's some fun facts bc i love reading about neuroscience

- the brain LITERALLY cannot tell the difference between what is real and imagined. this is why self deprecating jokes are so harmful and positive affirmations actually work

- contrary to popular belief, your brain doesn't actually stop growing at 21. this used to be believed but has since been proven false. you can change the LITERAL NEURAL NETWORKS OF YOUR BRAIN at any age. (tho it is true that the younger you are the higher the neuroplasticity of the brain)

- hypnosis isn't mind control. IT'S YOUR BRAIN USING HYPNOSIS AS AN EXUSE TO LET GOT OF IT'S SUBCONCIOUS BELIEFS. your brain basically uses the hypnotist as a means to ignore your beliefs. for example, if you have a fear of snakes. it's very hard for your brain to get over that fear by itself, but when being hypnotized the brain basically lies to itself and uses the hypnotist as an excuse to get over the fear.

- pure thought. PURE THOUGHT by itself, can change the fucking hardwiring of your brain. if you run every day, your brain learns to accommodate this habit and make it easier for you to run. now if you sit and JUST visualized yourself running for a couple minutes every day, your brain will do the exact same fucking thing. the brain is like "oh they seem to be running a lot. lets makes that easier for them" and will change the hardwiring of the neural networks to accommodate.

- everything you see and experience is just an interpretation of reality. technically you aren't actually seeing reality. when you think about it, we're just thought. so what the brain (aka the organizer) does, is take all the information that all the different senses provided, with all the brains previous knowledge, and creates what we experience. think of it like your personal sketch artist. (this is why illusions are weird)

mega-list of ideas for coping with distressing voices

these are only offered as possible things to try if ur hearing distressing voices… everyone is different & everyone’s voices are different. you know you better than anyone else knows you. if you need to modify any of these, or reject any of these as actively unhelpful for you, that’s ok. 💜 feel free to add your own.

use this however is most helpful for you - i’m sharing what helps & has helped for me. so in no particular order:

Name your voices. Sometimes when they’re all just nameless forms, it can be hard to understand what’s going on, and they can feel scarily omnipotent. I found naming mine helpful for kind of containing the experience & getting to know my voices. If you ask some voices will name themselves.

Visualise ‘safe spaces’ for your voices. If you ask some voices might create their own safe place. Otherwise, you can imagine somewhere real, like sometimes I ask one of my voices to go to sleep in certain bits of a room. Or you can imagine . If you really can’t be disturbed for a length of time, you can try leaving the radio on for them, visualising them relaxing, and tell them when you’ll be ‘back’.

Draw your voices. (Or create a pinterest board for them.) One of my voices used to say things that were horrendously graphic and distressing, and I used to try to block her out all the time, so she got more aggressive with trying to get a reaction from me. Drawing her, and everything she said, whilst very difficult to do, helped it feel more manageable, and helped me pick out themes in what she was saying.

Are there any kind voices you can draw on as allies? If you have a voice that’s kind to you, you could try asking them for help. To stand up to other voices, to comfort you afterwards, etc.

Planning in advance what you might say to distressing stuff. Does a specific voice say really triggering, threatening things with an authoritative tone? It might help to prepare for the voice, and how you might respond. Often being aggressive to aggressive voices can trigger more aggression from voices (voices will lash out if they’re insulted) - how can you be polite but assertive? An example I’ve heard is “bless you, but I don’t want to do that” for commanding voices. But your response will be unique. 

Set a time to listen to your voices. If voices aren’t listened to, they can get louder and more hurtful and graphic to try to get your attention - it can be a vicious cycle. But, if you engage with some voices without support, it can turn into them playing games with you and playing on your insecurities. It might help to strike a balance - set, say, half an hour a day, let the voices speak, and genuinely listen. After the time is up, you go back to doing what you usually do.

Try asking a trusted person to talk to your voices for you (this is a technique called voice dialoguing). Voice dialoguing was honestly the foundations of my recovery, and mostly conducted by my lovely partner. It’s where you sit in a different seat, and someone else speaks to your voices and you tell the person what the voices say, and you often do this multiple times. You decide what feels safe, and you debrief after. The person has to be non-judgemental about voices, and not frightened of voices. There’s information on voice dialoguing here: https://openmindedonline.com/2018/10/14/talking-with-voices-article-and-video/

Try some peer support. Maybe there’s a hearing voices group in your area? https://www.hearing-voices.org/hearing-voices-groups/find-a-group/ If not, there’s a lot of us on tumblr - hit us up and vent here. You don’t have to carry this alone.

Are you listening with anxious intensity bc they’re saying particularly distressing things? When my voices are calling me worthless or useless, or saying graphic things, or telling me a shameful secret only I know, I can completely drop what I’m doing, and LISTEN with such anxious intensity because I NEED to know I’m bad and evil. Sometimes it helps to notice I’m doing this and “let go” of the anxious intensity. I don’t need to powerlessly obsessively listen just because they’re shit talking me.

Physically soothe yourself to soothe screaming voices. Hearing screaming? Try hugging yourself, or giving yourself a face massage, or telling yourself it’s OK, or whatever it is that soothes you. When I soothe myself, I usually inadvetedly soothe the crying or screaming voice. Sometimes overtly comforting the voice helps too, even if it’s coming from very far away.

If you’ve experienced trauma, voices might be carrying memories you don’t remember or don’t feel strongly about, so they can’t be kind to you - you dissociated whilst they (the voice) stayed. Some voices remember things I don’t. Some memories I have I remember, but I don’t feel traumatised by them - but my voices really do. They have to be aggressive and violent towards me, because a) if I got close to them, I would remember too, and they’re protecting me, and b) they resent me for not remembering it whilst they do. Whilst this doesn’t immediately help how cruel they can be, it helps me have some compassion & acceptance. 

Imagine a protective spell. I used to imagine a pink, sparkling sphere of healing and protection around me, and nothing could get in and hurt me. I was totally safe within this sphere. I was really into D&D, so I statted it too - 1000000000 AC, resistant 10000 to negative energy, etc. On my worst nights this helped.

Have a grounding object. I got a stone from an enjoyable vacation I had, and also an amethyst and a teddy, and I used to curl up into the fetal position and GRIP them. If you’re into this stuff, you could charge the objects with healing energy, anything else that makes the object feel more grounding. (This post is about hearing voices but also if you have visual hallucinations & feel brave enough, throwing something through the hallucination can help.)

Experiment with earplugs, sound, and space. Everyone’s voices are so unique - some get louder in big, echoey buildings, some get louder in small spaces, some shout above background noises, some blend in, some get louder with earplugs, some get quiet. Experiment! Go to different spaces and ask the voices if they can talk. Put different (&no) background sounds on. Use earplugs. See if anything feels more or less comfortable.

Experiment with distractions. When I was strugglling 24/7, the only quiet I would get would be during a good film and I NEEDED that. You can’t use distraction all the time - voices will catch up, and ignored voices tend to try to find ways to not be ignored. But I’ve found it necessary to find some breathing space. Films were that for me. There could be distractions that work best for you.

Hide! It’s OK to hide. It’s so OK to hide. It’s not a negative coping mechanism. Under the desk is my favourite place.

Complete a Maastricht interview. I am continually surprised by how little I know about my voices & how helpful I find it to know my voices more. The Maastricht interview is a series of questions that facilitates more self understanding - it might be triggering, so it might be useful to prepare yourself. Look in your local area to see if you can do it in person. If not, voila! http://www.hearingvoices.org.nz/attachments/article/59/Maastricht_Interview_for_voice_hearers.pdf (fwiw I’ve not done it yet but want to lol & I’ve met voice hearers who it’s helped.)

You’re not dirty or wrong for a voice saying graphic and horrible things. <3 It’s OK to hear graphic and disturbing voices. It’s not a reflection on you. It’s OK and normal to hear these things. You deserve safety & kindness.

If your voices get loud in new or anxiety provoking situations, give them some detailed advanced warning. Voices don’t always know what’s happening, what year it is, etc - they’re not always oriented to our reality. Saying, say, “I am going to a job interview on Saturday. Here is what is going to happen on Saturday: …” can help them, so they don’t get anxious and take it out on you.

Start the small steps of building a collaborative relationship with your voices. Is your voice telling you to kill yourself, others, and that you’re worthless? Obviously, don’t do these things lol - but it might help to ask the voice if it has, say… a preference for a TV show, or a food. Something that doesn’t hurt you to accommodate. It can start the small steps of building a good relationship to take small preferences of the voice on board.

Educate your friends so they can be kinder to you. I like this talk! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syjEN3peCJw Most of my friends who were frightened of me & my voices were much more understanding after watching this. But you choose your resources. 

Accept that it’s ok to be distressed by them and it’s ok to struggle to cope.. Give yourself as much slack as you can. Hearing voices can be so gruelling. It can be isolating and lonely and PHYSICALLY exhausting. You don’t have to do it all. NONE of us can be ‘super-copers’. It’s OK to need rest, and to cut yourself some slack.

Honourary mentions for https://www.hearing-voices.org/ & https://www.intervoiceonline.org/ & https://understandingvoices.com/ c:

Something buried years ago lies burning still beneath the snow.

Ello Ello, we are the Mountain cap collective, and this is our resource and talking about our system profile .

I’m not gonna go over all the  diagnosis because they are too numerous, but we will list some of the more important ones C-DID, ASD, ADHD, CPTSD,H-EDS, POTS, dyslexia and dyspraxia .

We are a RAMCOA survivor, we are not planning to talk in detail about it, but will plan to share basic information about RAMCOA and the basis of what we experienced . We are leftist, this is a safe space for all. This is not a page about blood liable and conspiracy, if you support that kind of shit, please leave the front door is wide open. We also don’t support narcissistic abuse (it’s called emotional or psychological abuse), we have low empathy ourselves because of the abuse we suffered&ASD, sooo Yeet!

Anyways, a quick get to know us!



Miloslav

They/Them

Host

🐱.

Ivan

He/Him

🌻.

Wolfy

He/They

🗡️🐈.

Lou

He/Him

⚜️.

Louis

He/They

🏞️.

Jippi

Any/All

🐈.

Honestly, that’s everybody who fronts enough so yeah!

i’ve been told by a lot of people that robot alters who do what they’re told are from programming only. this is really scary to me because i did not experience that despite having an alter like that. i think if i had heard this as a younger system it would have made me very scared and convinced me of things that didn’t happen. can you share your thoughts on this?

Hi,

Blaming any presentation of DID or alters strictly on programming is a horrible idea. You're right that these kinds of claims are a major risk for false memories of ritual abuse, especially for young, newly diagnosed systems who are struggling immensely, still coming to terms with their symptoms and abuse history, and might be overly quick to take anything that older and seemingly authoritative systems claim at face value. I've heard of these types of claims going around for polyfragmentation, subsystems, internal worlds, and non-human alters. None of them are true. 

There are many reasons that someone could have a robot alter that does what it's told. It could be a metaphor for feeling like one's parents treated them like a robot instead of a child. It could have arisen from feeling like one's parents would have loved them more or punished them less if they were an obedient robot instead of a disobedient child. It could have been influenced by media that struck a cord regarding how robots were shown being treated or viewed by society. There's no reason whatsoever to assume robot parts or any other type of part automatically indicates any organized abuse, let alone programming.

There is no single or even combination of factors that can definitively indicate that someone experienced ritual abuse, programming, or any other type of trauma. Only actual memories (preferably continuous or spontaneously recovered, not recovered through hypnotherapy, creative writing, dream interpretation, or other potentially suggestive processes) or external corroboration of abuse can be trusted. No one should ever retroactively make assumptions about one’s abuse experiences based on adult symptoms, and no one should ever deny or downplay adult symptoms because they don’t have any of the causes that the individual has come to expect. That isn’t how mental health or DID/OSDD-1 work. That is how the Satanic ritual abuse panic got so incredibly out of hand. 

I’m glad that you were able to recognize that your robot part doesn’t indicate programming, and I appreciate you alerting us of this and giving us the opportunity to debunk it. 

I hope this helps,

Katherine

to those of y'all who want the feeling of sh but don't want the blood or the scars or smth:

one: take a paper mask and take out that bendy metal thing out of the top, you can hurt yourself with it but it doesn't really leave marks. it's hard to even make yourself bleed (but it is possible) but it gets that feeling of hurting yourself. it doesn't really hurt that much but it's better than nothing when you're about to break, but please use a clean mask.

two: cut your nails too short. people don't really question it and it hurts for multiple days, but be careful. your nails are dirty so wash your hands regularly.

three: scratch yourself. literally just nails against skin- BUT BE CAREFUL!!! its very easy to get carried away with scratching and if you go too far it'll just be the same as using a blade but less sanitary. your nails are dirty.

four: intentionally nick yourself while shaving. pretty self explanatory, just don't do it on your youknowwhat that shit hurts way too much and there is lots of bacteria there only do it on your legs and arms or idk chest?

five: pour wax on yourself. it's not that dangerous as long as you're careful and is a kink for some so idk you could say it's for that ig. be careful youre messing with fire.

six: wear slightly too small clothes (specifically underwear). it hurts and you shouldn't do it for a long period of time or a lot but if you wanna be in pain while going shopping or smth it'll definitely hurt.

i dont encourage s3lf h4rm and i encourage recovery, but if youre going to sh please do it safely and take care of your cvts!

pls tell me if the info here is wrong or a bad recommendation or anything ill try and fix it