Latest Posts by june-sunsets - Page 2
Alchemy & Dreams in Beetlejuice Part 2
Credit to the observant eye in the discord who noticed this fall from Astrid's belongings—
As mentioned in the last post, red and silver are representing Lydia and Astrid: the material and spiritual realms. The item which falls next to the cracked photograph is a molecular structure with a red atom and a silver atom.
Alchemists viewed the human body (microcosm) as a reflection of the universe (macrocosm). This suggested that atoms could give insights about human nature. Within this context, the atoms in the image represent Lydia and her dream Self (Astrid), and how they are the same person and are of the same element, due to the fact they both come from the same Molecule.
Alchemy consists of a mix of chemistry, philosophy, semiotics, and metaphysics, with much of the symbolism used to convey alchemical themes in Beetlejuice. But enough about Astrid the Mercurial Ghost; let's look at another character.
Otho
Throughout the first movie, Otho is typically associated with black and red. He's often wearing black with either a red tie, red buttons, or red shoes (which mysteriously disappear in a couple scenes only to be replaced by different colour shoes).
Red shoes have long been used in media to represent a metaphorical journey (The Red Shoes (1948), Kiki's Delivery Service (1989), and Hans Christian Andersen's The Red Shoes are a few examples). Need I remind you of one of Tim Burton's favourite movies, The Wizard of Oz?
Otho is the only character other than Lydia who piques interest in the dead. Despite his willingness to exploit them, he is ready to believe in their existence and study the handbook. These visual cues are conveying the character's motives.
Part of the alchemical process are the stages "Rubedo" and "Nigredo". Rubedo is Latin for "redness", the stage of understanding where two opposites have joined and created harmony. Nigredo is Latin for "blackness", the stage of putrefaction or decomposition, thus symbolising the dead. In layman's terms, red and black represent the character's willingness to connect with the dead. The only other character really associated with black and red is Lydia, and that speaks for itself.
Otho is a character who inspired the creation of Rory in the second movie. Within Lydia's psyche, Rory has been manifested from guilt. In the first film, Lydia is almost complicit in helping Otho to exorcise the Maitlands after he makes it clear that he wants to capitalise on the dead. In the second film, Lydia is under Rory's management to capitalise on the dead, and she is trying to make peace with that guilt by trying to help people through exorcisms.
Guilt in dreams is often seen as a manifestation of the unconscious mind's attempt to communicate unresolved internal conflicts. This is where the shadow becomes a central concept in Jungian psychology, referring to the parts of the Self that the conscious mind rejects or ignores. Lydia rejects the traits that Otho and Rory embody, and that is why her reconciliation with Astrid is a manifestation of her own forgiveness.
The Chemical Wedding
We talked about the purpose of the Chemical Wedding before, but why is it so relevant to the plot of Beetlejuice? Other than the fact Betelgeuse has fallen in love with Lydia, there is an allegorical reason for why the wedding must take place between these two, and no one else but these two.
A Chemical Wedding is the marriage between the sun and the moon. In alchemical texts they are often depicted as the white queen and the red king, though this has nothing to do with literal gender roles, for we see Lydia herself portrayed as the red king in her parallel with Astrid. It is related to the Anima (the female self) and the Animus (the male self). This is also the marriage between mercury and sulfur, spirit and matter, the dead and the living.
One of the most famous works on the subject of a Chemical Wedding is a Rosicrucian allegory published in 1616 by Christian Rosenkreuz. It describes a mystical journey where the main character must attend a wedding at a mysterious castle. The journey is a symbol of the alchemical process, while the wedding itself represents the final transformative stage.
The story is filled with strange and dreamlike imagery, with many claiming it as a source of German dark romanticism.
Rosenkreuz's allegory actually represents inner transformation of the individual, with marriage being used as a metaphor, insofar as the masculine and feminine halves must be merged together in matrimony to achieve completion within oneself.
"Death and the Maiden" trope is a motif that depicts a woman being taken by Death, as he desires to marry her. It is dire for death to marry his living bride, for he wishes to venture the living world and the underworld with her.
Betelgeuse is the perfect complementary opposite to Lydia, each crafted to embody the other's symbolic missing half. Betelgeuse is the animus; he's loud, provocative, and dead; Lydia is the anima; she's quiet, thoughtful, and alive. The contrast is straightforward and uncomplicated. You could easily spend hours analysing their differences, and you'd still be right—because they are deliberately written as foils to one another.
Looking back at how Otho/Rory represents the shadow of Lydia, we should take into account who guided her through this dream sequence. Our psyche creates these thought-images in our unconscious minds as a means to roleplay scenarios where we have internal conflict. It gives us a chance to psychoanalyse ourselves and try to understand the core of our trauma.
Betelgeuse, within Lydia's dream, is acting as a guide (remember his guide outfit in the first film?). He's constantly appearing to her, influencing her and urging her to face her fears. While he's causing chaos in the way he knows best, he's also showing Lydia the bare truth, and this is especially apparent when it comes to Rory: he tells Lydia she's an enabling codependent and forces Rory to tell the truth about his intentions. Betelgeuse is what Jung would refer to as the Trickster archetype. The Trickster is often seen as a figure that disrupts the status quo and challenges the Ego through chaotic and karmic actions, serving as a profound guide in the process of one's personal development. Think of "Jester's privilege", or The Fool in tarot.
In mythological symbolism, there comes the legend of a scorpion that stung Orion to death (the giant red star "Betelgeuse" sits on Orion's belt). The scorpion was delivered as to snub Orion's pride and teach him a lesson by way of death, because the scorpion is a symbol of death and rebirth. This is the Trickster archetype again, teaching a lesson in a very karmic way. Betelgeuse does the same throughout both movies. Otho, the Deetz, and the Deans are all punished by him in the first film for acting as antagonists against the ghosts of Winter River. Despite this, he also acts as an antagonist himself by punishing the Maitlands, two loving parental figures for Lydia, for getting in the way of his plan to marry her.
"They therefore represent a supreme pair of opposites, not hopelessly divided by logical contradiction but, because of the mutual attraction between them, giving promise of union and actually making it possible. The coniunctio oppositorum engaged the speculations of the alchemists in the form of the ‘Chymical Wedding," — Carl Jung, Psychology & Alchemy
In alchemical tradition, Saturn is associated with the metal lead, which symbolises the starting point of the alchemical work—the Nigredo phase. Alchemy is mostly known as the quest to turn lead into gold, but the allegorical meaning is to refine the Self. Saturn is equated with Cronos in mythology, the father of time, who was portrayed as an old man with a scythe/sickle, similar to the grim reaper, who is associated with the end of one's time. Betelgeuse has time-warping powers and wears time-keeping devices on his wrist, all a microcosm for how we measure eternity.
The whole Alchemical Opus works through THREE stages:
Nigredo (Black Stage): Betelgeuse represents lead and Saturn. Putrefaction.
Albedo (White Stage): Before Lydia summons Betelgeuse and agrees to the marriage, he is wearing a black and white suit. White is added to the mix. Purification.
Rubedo (Red Stage): Lydia is manifested a red wedding dress to finish the ceremony. They completed the alchemical process. Lead is turned into Gold.
In the movie's original wedding scene, found here, at 9:11 on the clock the afterlife creature who marries Lydia and Betelgeuse dissipates into fire, and then the scene ends. 911 in numerology is the number of completion, and is used in occultism to symbolise new beginnings and rebirth.
For this reason, it has been theorised that the wedding vows went through, and the Chemical Wedding was completed.
Alchemy & Dreams in Beetlejuice
Part 2
The more I reflect on the plot of Beetlejuice 2, the more I doubt that much of what happens in the film actually took place.
It's all written allegorically. Tim's work has always embodied Jungian themes such as archetypes and the shadow self, as well as his use of alchemy & numerology in the original Beetlejuice movie. For example, his use of the planet Saturn and its symbolism, as well as how he relates it back to Beetlejuice by having him wear several watches on his wrist, and freezing Adam & Wolf in time. "Sands of Time", "Saturn: the Father of Time".
You know how everyone who appears in your dreams is supposed to represent yourself?
Astrid = Lydia
"The images of alchemy are the most complete expression of individuation as a process, and they are therefore a valuable aid to understanding the symbolism of dreams." - Carl Jung
Astrid wears a silver dress, Lydia wears a red dress. In alchemy, (something Jung believed was a method to understand the psyche within our dreams) silver needs to be purified by red. Combined, these colours symbolise the union of spirit and matter, or the balance of opposing forces, essential for the completion of the alchemical process. So we have Astrid and Lydia symbolising the spiritual (silver/mercury) and the material (red/sulfur). This is why Lydia watches Astrid at the end of the dream getting married and having a baby. She is watching her dream representation living out her material desires.
They completed the alchemical process by fixing their relationship (forgiving yourself).
Astrid is so similar to Lydia, even storming off on her bike when Rory proposed. Rory also pushes Lydia to do the Ghost House show when we know that exploiting the dead is very OOC for her. If Astrid is Lydia, then Rory must represent her teenage feelings towards her parents. Her father married Delia who teen Lydia couldn't stand, and they both forced Lydia to move with them and adjust to their lifestyle.
Astrid and Lydia reconciling is Lydia reconciling with her past self. Through silver and red, spirit and matter, this is the completion of the alchemical process. Why did they put Delia in a purple dress alongside these two, when purple in alchemy symbolises the transmutation outcome? They could have chosen any colours, but the ones chosen just so happen to correspond with the story. Silver is spirit, Red is matter, Purple is the merging of spirit & matter, resulting in "enlightenment". You say Beetlejuice's name three times because in alchemy it's the number of completion (sulfur, mercury, salt).
And I must repeat myself: there is no clear indication of where Astrid's dream sequence begins. The sequence at the end seems to start after Lydia looks at the Maitlands' model with the lights as stars above her. Lydia is looking down at the town (the material realm), while her head is in the stars (the spiritual realm).
The whole Beetlejuice franchise is about alchemy, because Betelgeuse himself is an alchemist. He is the Trickster/Magician archetype, who is able to manipulate reality and able to traverse between the living and the dead, also known as rebirth.
Betelgeuse = Lydia's Masculine Self
Alchemical texts were concerned with achieving the coniunctio oppositorum (the union of opposites). This process is also known as "The Marriage of Opposites" or "Chemical Wedding". Whose marriage/wedding was important to the plot in both movies?
Delia finds her masculine self (Charles) thanks to Betelgeuse at the Soul Train. The Soul Train is the ferry which carries souls along the River Styx. It's the main river in the underworld that separates the living and the dead.
"The living and the dead; can they co-exist?" - Lydia Deetz
So, Lydia was watching Astrid (her dream self) get married and have the Beetlebaby. Everything Astrid goes through is a mixture of Lydia's fears and desires. Lydia's teen self feared that Betelgeuse was using Lydia as a way to have access to the living realm, and we know this because of Astrid's experience with Jeremy. However, by this logic, it also means Lydia desires marriage and a baby with Betelgeuse. Unfortunately, Lydia is in the material realm, while her masculine self is in the spiritual realm.
Canonically speaking, since we know Lydia loves horror films, dreaming of giallo movies aligns much better with her character than ignoring her ability to speak to the dead.
Where do you think that recent trend of making Dionysus a peaceful deity comes from ? Unless it's a coincidence that both Hades II and Kaos decided it. Even then, I don't understand how they had the idea. There are at least 10 myths that prove the opposite. A quick look on Theoi is enough.
The only time he's really called gentle, it's literally used as an antithesis to his terrifying nature (because duality is awesome).
And seeing this quote requires people to read the Bacchae 😂, yk, an actual source.
(being gentle to Ariadne doesn't mean he's like that to everyone)
So, what do you think ?
Like in Euripides's play, he described him "most gentle and cruel to men". The ancient Greeks new the dichotomy and complexity of his character, but of course many gods could enforce cruelty to those that acted hubris to them.
Dionysus of course ,most of the time in art and literature is casual and relaxed, hence why he didn't get much attention of his more dark side.
Also is the fact how for centuries, the renaissance and mostly Western Europe viewed him. Most people would portray Bacchus and other Roman depictions of him. Alas why this common misconception exists today.
It's also worth noting that many people look at things at a surface level. They see a couple of based and mid portrayals of Dionysus and think they know enough about him. That's an issue i see in retellings of people constantly making him a caricature because of this surface narrative.
"Greece sort of owns the Parthenon Marbles"
Sort of? SORT OF?
On July 5th 2024, yet another discussion about the Parthenon Marbles took place, at the British Museum. I never expect much anymore when it comes to this subject. Every time there's some kind of update on this ongoing debate, somehow my frustration reaches a new level. Because for every sensible debater, there will always be someone like 'classicist' Mary Beard.
According to Mary Beard, Greece only 'sort of' owns the Parthenon Marbles. "These are objects which are international, they belong to humanity, not to one particular bit of it", she said on July 5th.
Obviously I resent the entitlement in those words, the audacity to undermine the ethnic value of another country's heritage. The Marbles are international, you say? They don't belong to "one particular bit" of humanity? But if it hadn't been for that "one particular bit" of humanity, there wouldn't have been any Marbles to speak of. As a Greek person, I find it downright insulting of her, a British person, to say the Marbles don't belong to the "one particular bit" of humanity that birthed them.
How about we have a little laugh? Mary Beard said that the Parthenon Marbles are like a "child in a messy divorce case".
That's a wild simile. And by 'wild' I mean 'stupid'.
I'm calling it stupid because 'child of a divorce case' makes it sound like the Greeks and the Britons built the Parthenon together.
I know, of course, that Beard didn't make this simile out of stupidity. By comparing this debate to a child custody battle, she's insinuating the Marbles belong to the UK as much as they do to Greece, and that this is merely a matter of compromise. She knows exactly what she's doing, as a trustee of the British Museum.
On Twitter, she will 'educate' the public about what the Marbles should be called, in what feels like an attempt to justify naming the Marbles after the man who looted them. Whether you refer to the marbles removed from the Parthenon exclusively, or the 'less famous' stolen treasures, one thing is for certain; Elgin was a thief, and no amount of quirky 'pedantry' by Mary Beard is going to change that.
Lord Elgin was responsible for literally ripping pieces off of an ancient building, ignoring its cultural significance to Greek people. Make no mistake; he didn't find the Marbles on the ground, deserted and unappreciated by the Greeks. He RIPPED THEM OFF. Violently.
However, Mary autocorrect-to-the-rescue Beard will come to his defense, and tell you that when Elgin coveted the Marbles, the Parthenon was already in "a very sorry state". She went as far as to claim that "there is doubt at all he saved his sculpture from worse damage". All this is in a BBC archived piece written by Beard in 2011, in which she supposedly looks at both sides of the argument, yet it still felt one-sided when I read it.
So...he saved the Marbles from damage...by violently ripping them off the edifice? Gotcha.
We need to remember, everyone; the goal here is to make the BM Trustees and Elgin's ghost feel good about themselves.
"I want to see those marbles shared I think realistically, more generously with Greece", she said, on July 5th.
I wonder how Mary Beard would feel if one day a random person broke into her house and told her; "I planned to keep this place for myself, but you know what? Let's share it! I want to be generous to you."
Does she think she sounds like the bigger person? Does she think the British Museum is doing Greece a favor by entertaining the idea of sharing the Greek Marbles? How progressive!
How hypocritical.
She continued "I would like to see again the Parthenon marbles being ambassadors for a particular sort of Hellenic classical culture in which both Greece and the United Kingdom, and many other countries in the world, share; they can do their job not just in Athens or London- what about Beijing?"
What about Beijing, Mary? You reeeaaally don't want the Marbles to return to Greece, do you? If you could, I have a feeling you would personally deliver the Marbles to Mars. After all, the Marbles can be interplanetary.
I jump back and forth to her 2011 piece, where she asks; "Who owns great works of art? Do monuments such as the Parthenon belong to the whole world?" and "Are they the possession of those who live in the place where they were first made? Or are they the possession of everyone? The likelyhood is that we will be debating these issues for many years to come." Well, quite frankly, if we keep debating this for many years to come, it will due to the BM Trustees' own denial of reality. The questions Beard asks are easy to answer. Too easy, in fact.
In the same 2011 piece, Beard ponders the meaning of Cultural Property, of ownership. She points out how everyone can appreciate the works of Shakespeare and Mozart, and how things get sticky when it comes to the global appreciation of a tangible work of art such as the Marbles. The answer to this conundrum is obvious, if one looks at the matter objectively; the Greek Marbles belong in Greece, in the museum close to the Parthenon from which they were wrongfully torn from, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion if Elgin and his entourage hadn't taken them as souvenirs. The truth is that there is no real need for a debate, the BM trustees just keep dancing around the topic. They will harp on the complexity of this so-called debate because they don't like the idea of letting the Marbles return to Greece.
There's this childish insistence in the British Museum's reasoning, to keep associating the Parthenon Marbles with the UK much more than with Greece. I feel this stems from something that can be traced back to Elgin and his own avarice; a strange need to latch on to a part of a culture that was never theirs to begin with.
The insistence to connect the Marbles to the UK is the undertone to the 'child in a divorce case' comparison. It's what ultimately makes Beard's argument fall apart, and brings the hypocrisy to light. She said the Marbles don't belong to Greece, they belong to humanity. They're international, she said. And I ask; where was that sentiment before Greece called the British Museum out? Before we asked for the return of the Marbles? Before Melina Mercouri, Greek Minister of Culture, started fighting for them? If this matter had never been raised, would you ever care about your British Museum becoming "the world's greatest lending library", Mary?
What Mary Beard wants you to hear is; Why should Greece have the Marbles, when the whole world should have them?
What Mary Beard actually means is; If the UK can't keep them, then no one can.
Especially not Greece. The BM Trustees are adamant about that.
Which brings us back to the ridiculous "child in a messy divorce case" phrasing. A simile that doesn't apply in this situation and makes no sense, unless Beard imagined the BM as the delusional party who has convinced themselves this child is theirs even though there's no relation between them. But that would be too much self-awareness to expect from this academic.
You wanna compare the Parthenon Marbles to a child, Mary? Okay, but it's not a child 'in a messy divorce case'. This is a child that was abducted from its own home. It's a hostage situation, Mary. The British Museum is keeping a child hostage.
Greece wants her child back.
And as for cultural 'ambassadors', the British are free to send their own, instead of playing around with OUR cultural heritage.
If I had a penny for everytime my ship developed a psychic connection in their second movie together, I'd have two pennies. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.
Drew this back when that trailer dropped and never posted it lmao
It was supposed to continue but I lost motivation so I’m posting it now as it is. If I ever draw more crossover shenanigans I’ll just add it in a reblog
I put Musical Lydia in the Brazilian costume because it fucking rocks
I'm a sucker for soft toonverse (though darktoonverse is also chefs kiss) and so I decided to draw them on a movie date. Lyds fell asleep though, and Beej can't help but be captivated by her, the simp.
Iconic Golden Girls Things (as voted by you!)
#1: Picture it: Sicily... (28.3%)
Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Dream Theory Shortcuts
Full post - unpolished
The Opening Segment
Astrid
Richard
Rory
Charles
Glickman
Betelgeuse's Couple's Therapy
Betelgeuse/Jeremy parallels and Garden of Eden symbolism
Astrid's Demonic Birthing Sequence
Darktoonverse
Spoken dream/nightmare allusions
Critical analysis of the literal interpretation
References:
Casper
Carrie
The Shining
The Fly/Rosemary's Baby
The Wizard of Oz
Alfred Hitchcock
Elvira pt. I & pt. II feat. Labyrinth
B&W Segments
Ed Wood/Plan 9 From Outer Space
Mario Bava
Midterms, ya know I hate em.
Personal request from my babe @xxx-theartofsuicide-xxx - all nightmare, dream, and implied hallucinatory lines throughout Beetlejuice Beetlejuice (2024).
Beetlejuice Fan Theory
Okay, so I’ve already shared this with several of you, but I thought it would be neat to post it here in case anyone out there was interested in adding on or joining the discussion. I am absolutely CONVINCED that Betelgeuse knew he was going to try and marry Lydia before the Maitlands ever summoned him. Here are the events as we know them to have passed:
Lydia spots the Maitlands through the window and they comment on it, in full view of the model.
Lydia receives the skeleton key from Jane.
Cue Betelgeuse’s commercial. The Maitlands immediately leave for the Neitherworld.
Lydia enters the attic, picks up the handbook, sits down, starts reading.
The Maitlands return three months later and Juno says “I believe he’s been sleazing around your cemetery.”
When the Maitlands FINALLY summon Beej, he goes out of his way to make it look like he’s still trapped in the model- but he’s not. He says to their faces “you want to get some people out of your house. I want to get SOMEBODY out of your house.“
From this point on until the end of the snake scene, when Barbara calls him back, Betelgeuse has free roam of the house. Juno even explicitly scolds the Maitlands, telling them “you took Betelgeuse out and you did not put him back!”(sidenote; I can’t help but wonder what he was doing during those hours)
Later, Delia comments that there’s no way anyone could get into the attic because it’s locked. This tells us that Lydia never turned over the skeleton key. Charles kept the study for himself. Lydia keeps the attic.
We KNOW that Lydia never gave up the skeleton key. This means that if she did continue visiting the attic during those three months(of course she did, why wouldn’t she?) she would have had to sneak around to do it without arousing Delia’s suspicion(cause Delia would take the attic and turn it into a god awful trendy mess given the chance). Which means she was probably only there late at night… wink wink nudge nudge naughty, naughty girl ;)
PLEASE if anyone would like to add on to this, dispute my claims, or contribute a theory of your own, feel free to do so.
Different answers you can give to “there shouldn't be people of color playing the gods in Percy Jackson since they were Greek”.
Broke: The gods can be played by people of any race because they're not real.
Woke: The gods can be played by people of any race as, because they're not human, we have never been able to see them in their true forms. We would burst into flames if we did. The depiction we see of them in statues was done in the image of the models that posed for them. Also race politics weren't the same in Ancient times as they are know, especially in the USA. Some territories that are know considered Middle Eastern were considered Hellenic back them and they worshiped these gods. Because of this, artists and worshipers of these regions imagined the gods in their image, just like we nowadays can see depictions of Jesus in different races.
Now let's discuss why Hollywood loves to cast Central or Northern European descent actors to play Mediterranean humans and demigods such as Hector or Achilles.
I like the idea of Ariadne meeting her mother in law. After Semele gets resurrected and becomes immortal, there's no doubt of them meeting together.
Imagine Semele spending time with her son she never got to hold as a baby, now being all grown up, married and with kids. She would love to spend time filling the gaps of their lost time.
She would love to help Ariadne with becoming a mother, nursing her kids and talking about their past lives when they were mortals. How Ariadne would feel more close to her, than she did with her actual mother.
How Dionysus would often stand there and admire the two most important women of his life being in the same room as him, happy and well.
Important research
Define "burger" and "american" however you want. Vote with ur heart.
In regards on how Dionysus was portrayed in this year's Olympics's ceremony, i would like to start a petition to start portraying Dionysus in general as a handsome, charismatic man.
It's time to stop glorifying this false image of him (drunk, useless, laughing stock) so let's make a start, here's how i draw him for example:
A gigantic three-headed Kokoni guarding the gates of the Underworld
With Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, Tim Burton looks like he might be aiming to do the funniest thing that’s ever happened in one of his movies. I’m extremely here for it. Like, honestly, let the antagonist and the protagonist fall in love (with or without meaning to) while working together to save somebody else. Thirty-six years and multiple franchise iterations have determined we love them because they’re both freaks; what have you even got to lose?
If you
tell a Greek person off for merely asking foreigners to be respectful of their culture and do some research
try to disconnect Greeks from their ancient history and cultural heritage so that it will be easier for you to appropriate it and treat it as an aesthetic
use a word from their native language incorrectly with the single purpose of offending them
make snide comments about their relationship to another country when you clearly don't know the historical context (on the anniversary of a historical event that is absolutely relevant)
unfairly accuse Greeks of being supremacists and folkists because you don't understand the meaning of 'ethnicity' and even worse, you refuse to understand it
ignore all the points made by the few people that took the time to explain to you in detail why you're wrong instead of resorting to childish name-calling, like you did
you are clearly the problem. If anyone is discriminatory here, it's you.
You can't claim to appreciate Ancient Greek culture when you have no respect for the people said culture belongs to. Grow up.
If you argue with one folkist/Greek supremacist, 50 of their friends show up. It's always the pattern.
One thing I need foreigners to understand about Hellenic polytheism is you cannot categorise the Divine into neat little boxes like they're laboratory samples you're putting in quarantine. The Gods interact with each other and with the world, their domains mingle the same way our lives and the people in them connect like the links of a chain.
This is why you see us Greeks advocating for foreigners to do research into our culture if they want to approach Hellenic polytheism, and this is why you don't cherry-pick the Gods that "fit your vibes/aesthetic" and exclude the rest. You can't ignore aspects of existence and you can't ignore the Gods.
Do you need to work heavily with every single deity? No, of course not. But you do need to show them respect, even if it's from a distance.
Wish (2023): a Review
this is the film I get? (da-da, da-da, da-da, da-da, da-da, da)
they are talking business and totally not enjoying each other's company *exaggerated wink*
Persephone was supposed to be distracted by the narcissus, but then *gasp* Hades was distracted by Persephone
Posts like this miss entirely the point 😞
There was controversy. As much as I ,as a Greek, enjoyed the game many agreed that the game was showing a diversity fit for the USA. The difference is that a post managed to get many views to cause a debate.
The point isn't what the artists did, who just did their job, is the studios and corporations behind the scenes that push the forced diversity into a culture that has been overshadowed.
Again i will say this example, had the game be about Chinese/Egyptian/ Hindu mythology would it make sense for the deities to be of different ethnicity?
No. So the same goes for the Greek gods.
People simply ask ,why Greeks are being tossed aside and forgotten and don't get respected for simply saying they want representation in the entertainment industry. It's nothing about racism or white supremacism or "haters are losing it right now".
Ethnicity matters and Greek culture is still thriving despite the hardships it endured. The bare minimum we ask is seeing ourselves being represented in media the way it's respected.
The kind of mythology flex it is to be able to say "Hey! I'm a Real Alive Person and I was born and raised in mountain Πήλιο (Pelion), the actual mythical home of the Centaurs (and birthplace? If I'm not mistaken?)"
Because hey. I exist :)
And xenoi still think they're the rightful inheritors of Ancient Greek culture. Maddening to consider.
No bc back when I was reading Percy Jackson as a kid, I was so hurt to read the line where it said that the Greek Gods follow the path of "Πρόοδος" to the West and have "relocated to the US" or whatever. As a lil kid, my immediate reaction was
"WHY?! We're still here aren't we? Is Greece empty now? Is Olympos vacant? Why would Our Gods abandon us? What about the demigods born in Greece?"
It's a special kind of rage pain when you take into account ALL OF THE FUCKING STOLEN ANCIENT ARTIFACTS. That our culture often depicts them as being abducted. I've cried in frustration about this.
Haha, is that why everything's burning down? Because the Nyphes were (stolen?? again????) "relocated" and are no longer roaming the Greek forests? Is that why everything's flooding, because Poseidon is no longer here to regulate the Seas and Waters? Are we really Dying Off?
It's like plucking a beautiful flower from it's birthplace and trying to get it to get used to an environment it was not made to grow in. It's this level of absurdity. What the fuck.
That's why I'm a Greek Person studying Archaeology. We need more of us. Desperately.
My hands are shaking as I'm writing this and I'm slowly losing my mind about it :DDD
But to leave on a positive note. Hehe, mythology flex. I could have been born a Centaur if I really wanted to. Happily galloping away in the fields in the comfort of my own ignorance of our culture being ripped apart, dismembered and depicted as the gnarly bloody soulless mess the xenoi have made it be in mainstream media.
Ah, there's always next life. ^-^
I feel you, anon, and I've often felt the same as you. Our cultural heritage is rich and we are still here, a long line of people passing the Greek culture down. No matter what xenoi say, they will be eventually humbled by the truth if enough of us let the world know.
The PJO series did a big damage to us, matter how innocent it seems to the Westerners. If you check my #pjo and #rick riordan tags you'll see discussions about the books and of course the bigoted line "the gods abandoned Greece for the modern pillar of Western civilization, aka the US".
Hold on και καλή δύναμη!!!
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no, Rick, it's not
Like what do you mean Mount Olympus is the Empire State Building?? Last time I ckecked, Mount Olympus is a MOUNTAIN and it's in GREECE. 'Many of the locations of Greek mythology have also moved with Mount Olympus and can be found all over America'????? These are locations, not furniture!
Greece is a country that still exists, by the way, so why exactly would the Greek Gods (Greek, Rick, Greek) abandon it? Why would they leave their homeland?? Every time I remember that passage where Chiron is like "haha, Percy, western civilization is a liViNg fORce and it started in Greece" and "ohh it's a fire and the Gods follow wherever the flame is brightest uwu" I just- it's so stupid, it makes me want to pull my hair out. How on Earth did Riordan think that was okay to write? Did he really think it was valid justification for basically disconnecting the Greek gods and Greek culture from Greece and Greek people?
You know what this 'justification' reminds me of? This. They're both part of the same narrative.
Not even the camp- the goddamn camp for children whose parents are Greek Gods- is set in Greece. Riordan just made a US-flavored cake and sprinkled some Greek Mythology on top. Delicious.