Can You Explain What A Shell Alter Is And What Their Purpose Is? /gen

One of my favourite bits of media history trivia is that back in the Elizabethan period, people used to publish unauthorised copies of plays by sending someone who was good with shorthand to discretely write down all of the play's dialogue while they watched it, then reconstructing the play by combining those notes with audience interviews to recover the stage directions; in some cases, these unauthorised copies are the only record of a given play that survives to the present day. It's one of my favourites for two reasons:

It demonstrates that piracy has always lay at the heart of media preservation; and

Imagine being the 1603 equivalent of the guy with the cell phone camera in the movie theatre, furtively scribbling down notes in a little book and hoping Shakespeare himself doesn't catch you.

do not know how to word my feelings on your post, but it feels very strange to say that because your DID experiences are misery, that means DID itself is miserable, and to imply that non-DID-having bodies can't experience being a system is weird.

yes, what you went through sounds awful, and yes, DID to you would be miserable, but DID does not mean misery. it means (some level of) disorder. for people who are polyfragmented (especially through things like RAMCOA/TBMC), yes, this CAN mean a LOT of misery, but us systems who do not suffer with that same level of misery aren't less of a system because of that difference.

while you can explain your experiences as more painful in your perspective, playing trauma olympics and denying other people's own experiences is weird. it's heavily invalidating, especially as someone who would probably fall under a disordered traumagenic diagnosis, and who loves their system and who sees it as hope and not misery (as it is the light in the darkness, the company that protected me through terrible things. that is not misery for me)

(also, most endogenic systems are not claiming to have DID, not self diagnosed or professionally diagnosed. it is a different kind of plural systemhood that is not connected to having DID. so to say that being endogenic is taking away "everything that DID is about" is just... strange.)

I am not playing the trauma Olympics by saying that what I went through makes me miserable. For you to suggest acknowledging my existence as a trauma survivor is invalidating is really not good.

Also I should clarify: you can love parts and even most of your system, but you cannot deny the fact that it is born out of misery and so it is not all sunshine and rainbows. It comes with PTSD, or one of its forms.

Also, endogenic is taking away everything DID is about because the only scientifically recognized way to be a system is with either DID (or a variant like HC or C), OSDD-1, or UDD. And these, like all dissociative disorders, are trauma disorders. To me being endogenic has always meant cherry picking a glamorized version of the symptoms of these disorders, as I said in the post.

Toxic Red Flags you do, to yourself. Aka; Self Destructive Behaviours

(FYI, I've done some of these myself. Again, I'm not perfect)

Pushing people away

Pushing your friends away

Pushing your own family away

Thinking you DON'T deserve love

Thinking you are a burden to everyone

Controlling other people; what they wear, how they talk, what friends they can have and even what relationships they have

Extremely independent; refusing help (even tho, you really need it), thinking you can do everything on your own

Keep making the same mistakes BUT NEVER learning from them

Blaming your behaviour onto someone else

Blaming your condition on your actions

Lying to therapists

Lying to your friends

Lying to your family

Having double standards

Ignoring your basic needs (i.e, brushing teeth, eating good, not taking a shower/bath once a week, brushing your hair etc)

Being a people pleaser, so you avoid conflict

You expect everyone to respect your boundaries, BUT you NEVER respect someone else's boundaries (same as, double standards)

Talking about your mental health is okay BUT it's bad when someone else is talking about theirs (same as, double standards)

Trauma dumping

Everything is a trauma, including an embarrassing story that you could laugh at years down the line (example; a haircut YOU wanted, ISN'T a trauma story).

NOT accepting consent

Blocking people with no warning (same as pushing people away)

Ignoring everyone around you

Making everyone happy BUT NEVER making yourself happy

Causing arguments

Fighting and having outbursts (this can hurt people. Emotionally and physically)

Thinking you deserve less than

Self medicated (i.e; alcohol use, taking too much medicine than what your doctor prescribed, taking drugs. Weed and CBD DOESN'T count)

Attacking the ones that you love (since you CAN'T express how you feel)

Causing drama in your friendship group

Causing drama in your family

Everything has to be evolved around you

You CAN'T say "no" (same as being a people pleaser and avoiding conflict)

Being childish and and acting in a child like manner

Keeping secrets, so you're worried of back lash

Self harm

Eating too much

Eating too little

Comfort eating

Restricting your diet

Thinking you DON'T deserve food

Thinking you DON'T deserve warmth

Thinking you DON'T deserve comfort

Locking yourself away from everyone around you

Keep putting yourself into dangerous situations

Gossiping about your friends BUT the minute your friend gossips about you, you're annoyed (same as double standards)

Giving advice BUT the minute someone gives you advise, you're annoyed (same as double standards)

Having a secret life that no one knows about

Keep dating abusive people and wondering where are going wrong

Having a rude tone to people BUT when someone is being rude to you, you're annoyed (same as double standards)

Falling out with everyone

Having that mentality where you think you are always the victim and you NEVER did anything wrong

Thinking you are perfect in everyway (NO ONE is perfect)

Thinking you CAN'T make mistakes

Telling someone's secrets to people BUT the minute when someone tells your secret, you're annoyed (same as double standards)

Putting blame on abuse survivors, thinking it's their fault.

When you judge someone's interests or hobbies it's okay BUT when someone judges your interests and hobbies, you get annoyed (same as, double standards)

When you vent to someone that's okay BUT when someone vents to you, you get annoyed or get 'triggered' (same as double standards)

It's okay for you to be annoyed at them BUT when someone is annoyed at you it's 'triggering you' (same as double standards)

It's okay when you make jokes at other people BUT when someone does it to you, you get 'triggered' (same as double standards. Example; Will Smith's wife, she's fine joking about her bald head but when someone does it back, oh no you can't do that. Again, it's that double standard)

Kink shaming

Thinking you are smarter than they are

Ignoring a situation and thinking it will all go away

Ghosting someone

NOT acknowledging that you're NOT doing okay and pretending to be okay

Hiding your true feelings

Being a door mat for everyone

NEVER voicing voicing your opinions (same as, being a people pleaser and avoiding conflict)

You force yourself to stay quiet in different situations (same as avoiding conflict. Example; someone is being rude to you and you stay quiet and just nod)

Putting someone down because they don't have the same qualifications as you

Gaslighting someone and putting them down (that's straight up bullying)

You preach about your religion BUT when someone has a different religion to you and they preach that to you... You get annoyed (same as, double standards)

I did not just see an endogenic system coining terms for "programmed headmates" as in the realms of computers. You do not just say shit like that lightly. You do not understand the kind of harm that does to programmed systems like us. Please please please don't do things like this.

You are literally describing RAMCOA experiences. You are adding more harm and confusion to survivors like us. This has nothing to do with you being endogenic it has everything to do with how this is harmful to RAMCOA systems. I understand the system travel should make it clear it's not about DID- but honestly if you have actual programming something is very wrong. If you have internal programmers you are not endogenic- you are likely a RAMCOA survivor. Please please do not refuse to look into mental health aid and treatment. Please do not engage in this. It is dangerous.

Please you do not understand how desperate I am for people to listen to this- you are describing effects of mind control on systems.

✦ Rainy day apartment details ✦

im tired of ppl misusing these terms so:

codependent does not mean two people who have a strong attachment and are very clingy towards one another

codependent means a specific type of unhealthy relationship where one person engages in unhealthy/self-destructive behaviours and the other person becomes their caretaker whilst enabling them, out of a need to feel needed

trauma bonding does not mean two people find common ground because they've both been through similar traumatic events and grow close because they understand each other's experiences

trauma bonding means bonding to your abuser as a survival strategy or due to manipulation. (similar to the concept of stockholm syndrome)

A new OSDD/DID combo cheat for terror/panic attack!

- keeping the eyes open to minimize flooding and switching, looking at an object in the room that was gotten in the last calendar year to ground in the present

- heavy stuffy on the chest

- EMDR bilateral music in headphones

- alternate thumbs rubbing on stuffy

- eventually when able to move more, alternate palms rubbing slowly on stuffy's back

- repeating "of course you're scared, that makes total sense, you can be scared right now and we'll hold you" worked for today

- pat the stuffy, soothe the scared part, slow soft pats like on a baby's bum or back to gentle them

- gradually, sit up/change positions and rock and stim to release the rest of the adrenaline/energy

- eventually did a reorienting exercise to ground in the present

The terror ebbed a lot gentler and sooner than I expected! Very proud and grateful. Love having a stuffy with heavy beads in it.

rusalki are not mermaids. stop translating the word "rusalka" as "mermaid" and stop calling rusalki "slavic mermaids". it's confusing, it's misleading, and it's simply isn't true. the association of rusalka with a western mermaid and undine began in 19th century, when russian empire poets wanted to adapt a popular western motif of a sorrowful water maid that is unrequitedly in love with a mortal man. this literature character of rusalka has nothing to do with actual rusalki folklore and cult.

rusalki are natural undead spirits that are connected to slavic ancestral worship. they don't have tails. they are not in any way connected to the sea: only lakes, ponds, and rivers. often, they're not even connected to water at all: there are forest rusalki, field rusalki, meadow rusalki, etc. they are in close relationships with their human kin: during the spring and summer, they are used in agricultural rites and are believed to help with farming and raising crops. rusalki were sacred to slavic people. the "week of the rusalki" festival, when rusalki are believed to walk on earth and visit their relatives, is celebrated to this day. to call them "slavic mermaids" is very diminutive of their actual role in slavic cultures.

I suspect quite a few people on this site don’t realize they are struggling with the effects of chronic trauma. In particular I think more people need to learn about the symptoms of C-PTSD.

Distinct from general PTSD, Complex PTSD is caused by prolonged, recurring stress and trauma, often occurring in childhood & adolescence over an extended period of time. There are many risk factors, including: abusive/negligent caregivers, dysfunctional family life, untreated mental/chronic illness, and being the target of bullying/social alienation.

I’m not a mental health professional and I’m not qualified to diagnose anyone, I just remember a million watt light bulb going off in my head when I first learned about C-PTSD. It was a huge OH MY FUCKING WORD eureka moment for me—it explained all these problems I was confused and angry at myself for having. The symptoms that really stood out to me were:

Negative self-perception: deep-seated feelings of shame, guilt, worthlessness, helplessness, and stigma. Feeling like you are different from everyone else, like something is fundamentally ‘bad’ or ‘wrong’ with you.

Emotional avoidance of topics, people, relationships, activities, places, things etc that might cause uncomfortable emotions such as shame, fear, or sadness. Can lead to self-isolation.

Learned helplessness: a pervasive sense of powerlessness, often combined with feelings of desensitization, wherein you gradually stop trying to escape or prevent your own suffering, even when opportunities exist. May manifest as self-neglect or self-sabotage. (I remember watching myself make bad choices and neglect my responsibilities, and having no idea why I was doing it, or how to stop myself. Eventually I just stopped caring, which led to more self-neglect.)

Keep reading

Citing outdated research is something I've started seeing a lot of lately. This time I will focus on people utilizing Kluft's 1988 Complex MPD paper to state that polyfragmentation can be as low as part counts in the 20s, that polyfragmentation is "poorly defined and debated," and that severe abuse does not need to occur for polyfragmentation to develop. So let's break this down.

Research is considered outdated if it is 10+ years old (and in some fields, anything 5+ years old). This paper was published 34 years ago.

Kluft's sample was 26 people with 26+ parts, 24 of which are AFAB and 2 are AMAB, 94% white. This is extremely small for a research study and not At All representative of any population.

In the abstract of the paper it states this: "48 of the 76 cases reviewed [...] had dual (2) personalities. Another 12 had 3 personalities. Only 1 individual, a patient with 12 personalities, had more than 8." Emergent research at the time was beginning to show higher parts counts--it cites several authors that put the average as 2-10, 6.3, 13.3, 13.9, 15.4, and 15.8. All of these studies had sample sizes less than 100 (mostly sub-50) except for the 15.8 number which had a sample size of 355. Kluft outright states that alter count is being investigated at that point. Note the vast majority of these studies, including the emergent research, output a lower alter count than is considered average today.

Kluft states that "Somewhat arbitrarily, [he] defined extreme complexity as the presence of at least twice as many alters as the upper limit of the modal range of 8-13, ie 26 or more." Key note here is that this Kluft's personal definition of complexity (not a widespread consensus) at a time when alter count was being openly investigated as essentially an unknown (he is using the upper limit as in the extreme end of averages per the previous emergent research indications, not that this was now widely considered the average alter count). Kluft was one of the very few people who even dealt with complex cases, with most of his colleagues opting to pass them onto him (as is noted in the paper), so essentially there was very little besides his own personal opinion to go off of.

Kluft notes that his observed rate of seeing complex MPD cases "constitute approximately 15-20%" of his patients, and that his "experience with very complex cases began in 1975." This means that of the cases he was seeing over the past decade, only 15-20% of his DID cases had 26+ parts. Or, 80-85% of his clients had fewer than 26 parts.

Kluft's phrasing in this paper that "chaotic and unsafe" home environments are a pathway to complex MPD has been used lately as "proof" that polyfragmentation does not need to occur from RAMCOA or severe abuse settings and can come from simply having an unstable home environment. This is a cherry-picked phrase and should not be used as evidence, because of the next point:

His findings for people with 26+ parts: 100% experienced "long-standing severe abuse." 46% had abuse histories that were documented legally in the 70s or corroborated by witnesses. It is nearly impossible to win a court case NOW against your abuser, much less in the 70s, and having witnesses to abuse is also a marker that the abuse was severe as abusers tend to abuse when others aren't around--for them to escalate is heavy. Not to mention the 70s were much stricter about what was considered abuse. 92% were incest survivors. 58% experienced "vicious torment." 35% were RA survivors. The exact percentage isn't listed but Kluft states that in addition to the 35% RA survivors in his sample, another 1/3rd (~33%) stated that others "manipulated their condition"--due to his grouping the two together I am inclined to think that there were likely overlaps in experience with RA and this, though we can't be sure. It's important to keep in mind here that the alter count is 26+.

What this study states is not that polyfragmentation is ill-defined in 2022. What it states is that in the 1980s, researchers were still trying to figure out what the average alter count even was. Much less polyfragmentation.

This study states that among a small group of people with 26+ parts, all of them had severe abuse histories and the overwhelming majority were incest survivors. This is evidence AGAINST the claim that polyfragmentation can occur in merely unstable households, not for it. Its evidence is that severe abuse is needed to develop above average alter counts, quoting Kluft with the phrase "the more traumata, the more alters." The fact that in a study for 26+ parts, over 1/3rd were RA survivors is a significant marker of this.

Not only this, but it is evidence AGAINST the idea that high alter counts in DID are common at all. If 80-85% of Kluft's patients had under 26 parts, it would indicate that above average alter counts in the 26+ count are a minority and that would indicate that having 100+ parts would be even more so.

Now, current evidence does not support the idea of a tit-for-tat "every trauma = another alter" idea that Kluft put forth. Current evidence shows that 50% of people with DID have 10 or fewer parts, which doesn't discount Kluft's experience of 80-85% of cases having fewer than 26, but does make it more unlikely given our higher average alter count now (as in, it is likely a higher number of people have 26+ parts than Kluft thought). Currently there is a stable definition of polyfragmentation as 100+ parts (with implied complexities), for the past ~15+ years, through the training provided by OEA SIG of the ISSTD and various texts including Christiane Sanderson's Counseling Adult Survivors of CSA. But this is why we should not use decades old research as if it wholly relevant--we can use it as a reference point but it is not accurate or up to date. It's also why cherry-picking phrases in research can lead one to wildly different conclusions than what it actually stated.