Hello! I Keep Looking For Resources On How To Know If You've Experienced DBMC But A Lot Of What I've

hi! do u know anything about the term “childhood torture” vs general childhood abuse manipulation and gaslighting… and mind control vs manipulation and gaslighting? some people also say though who go through childhood torture are also automatic ramcoa victims but I’m unsure abt that? if it’s done by a family and not an organization would it still be ramcoa? or what exactly is sadistic or severe abuse vs regular abuse.. bc I see a lot of people specifying ramcoa as the most severe abuse or talking about “severe abuse/trauma” vs regular abuse ..

To be honest I do not think RA/OA is the "most severe abuse" nor do I think it is particularly conducive to rank abuse on that kind of scale. Yes some stuff is objectively pretty bad but I think framing RAMCOA as "the most severe" is the exact reason that so many people are suspecting they have RA or polyfragmentation: because they think that it would HAVE to be really bad if they are experiencing the things they are, when in reality whatever it is they experienced was clearly already really bad. (And since we're on this topic, being triggered by RAMCOA or other forms of extreme abuse does not mean you are a survivor. Even nonsurvivors get triggered by this)

Also again RAMCOA is not all equivalent. A trafficking survivor will not have the same experiences as a child soldier nor are their experiences now somehow equivalent. If we insist on using a scale like this then I would say if you are alive you have not experienced the worst thing, because most "worst things" to experience will kill you.

"Childhood torture" is not really a specific term, it is just a type of experience, similar to 'sexual abuse' or 'physical abuse'. It is torture you experienced in childhood, with no other requirements.

Torture can sometimes be conducted by a single individual, though it is difficult and will not be effective for any sort of psychological control. Torture conducted this way is not for any end goal but for the perpetrator's emotional release. So not every torture survivor is a RAMCOA survivor. Most of the time, torture does have an organized abuse component, for various reasons but the most glaring one being the amount of resources required to torture a person without anyone else finding out, which is why many torture survivors are RAMCOA survivors. Torture typically has both a physical and psychological component. Gaslighting is not torture. Manipulation is not torture. Gaslighting and manipulation can be a part of torture but there is kind of a big difference between something like waterboarding versus gaslighting. Legally, torture is very loosely defined but this is more due to the wide variety of methods people come up with in torture that courts want to be able to define as torture, not that torture is itself vague or difficult to differentiate. For example, forcing people to drink until they get water poisoning and slowly die is a documented form of torture. Which is a really weird thing to do and probably not something a court could come up with listing if they wanted to do a list of actions that qualify as torture. An example of psychological torture would be being forced to watch or participate in someone you love being tortured or killed.

The term severe sadistic abuse is really hard because it IS vague but there is not really a good way to term it without getting into details that can be triggering. Severe sadistic abuse in academic writings includes torture and terrorism survivors, and frequently cites the Holocaust as an example. If that gives you a good baseline idea of what the line is. I think when discussing academic terms it is important to remember that terms are created because they serve a function. If severe sadistic abuse was equivalent to gaslighting, manipulation, they would not have created the term because both emotional and psychological abuse already exist as terms. For example, gaslighting is only a term because it is not just lying but an explicit and intentional attempt to manipulate someone's perception of themselves and their reality and make them reliant on an abuser to tell what is true or not. If "lying" or "manipulation" fit then there would be no need for the term.

♡ DID/OSDD Positivity! ♡

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - alters been quiet for a while?  *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - nonhuman alters? *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - trans alters? *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - little alters? *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - fictive heavy systems? *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - alters acting similar to the host? *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - all persecutors are *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ -  all protectors/caregivers are *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ -  all trauma holders are *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - your trauma is *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - your disorder is *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

Cult Survivor Resources

Because we have seen and been given almost no cult survivor resources whatsoever by others and have in fact been discouraged from getting help (yes shockingly enough the idea that deprogrammers should not be talked to seem to be a pressure from those whoa are so called allies to victims of cults), we have decided to make our own resources document.

Google Docs

Cult Recovery Resources

Read Before You Research This document is a series of sources compiled by a cult survivor with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). This m

This is something we will keep updating as time goes on. We find resources like this to be very important especially our inclusion of dates that could cause discomfort, and why they are, as well as support group information and information on cult mind control. We are sick and tired of people telling us that it is bad to get help especially within the system community. No other space ever has treated us so strangely for our background.

I do want to say a thing I missunderstood about DID when I was "new to it" was that I thought all repressed memories were things I did not remember happening, and while some of them are like that, MOST of the "recovered memories" was more often things I had written off as normal, didn't realize how much damage it took and only realizing it then, or things that were blurred over that I cpuld guess what happened but not actually see it clearly.

For the first year or two we said we never had any sexual trauma, not because we didn't know OF the events, but that we did not remember how bad it was or the damage dealt. We later recovered some of that lost details, emotions, and damage and was left to process it as a "recovered memory"

Do you have any resources for RAMCOA? Resources for like...the types of programs and stuff like that. We're going through things and trying to research and pinpoint things, but finding resources has been absolute hell. If you get this twice, I'm sorry. Our tumblr is kind of shit.

Hello! I have several resources that I think may be helpful to you:

This document (LINK) of "rare programs" and their descriptions, posted by @killercatboys.

Chapters 4 and 7 of Becoming Yourself by Alison Miller (LINK) discuss programming and chapter 7 includes an anecdote with specific programs and definitions. The entire book is really a great read and is geared towards survivors of RAMCOA, just be sure to take it slow and take care of yourself.

Common Programs Observed in Survivors of Satanic Ritualistic Abuse by David W. Neswald (LINK) - massive trigger warning for suicide, self-harm, and abuse.

Spin Programming: A Newly Uncovered Technique of Systematic Mind Control by John D. Lovern (LINK) - includes symptoms, implementation, and uses of spin programs; trigger warning for abuse/torture methods.

Healing the Unimaginable by Alison Miller (LINK) is geared towards therapists and professionals and includes more in-depth information about RAMCOA than Becoming Yourself does. Again, massive trigger warning throughout the book for RAMCOA.

Kinds of Torture Endured in Ritual Abuse and Trauma-Based Mind Control by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) - partial list of torture methods used in RAMCOA; trigger warning for abuse, near-death, and torture.

Mind Control: Simple to Complex by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) - describes twelve "stages" of mind control and programming, going from outward compliance to torture/trauma-based mind control; trigger warning for descriptions of abuse.

Some Indicators of Trauma-Based Mind Control Programming by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides common indicators of TBMC; most survivors of programming will have many of these indicators, but their presence does not prove the existence of TBMC and their absence does not prove that one has not experienced TBMC.

Adult and Adolescent Indicators of Ritual Trauma by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides indicators of ritual abuse in teens and adults; as with the last bullet point, their presence does not prove ritual abuse and their absence does not disprove it.

Child Indicators of Ritual Abuse Trauma in Play and Art by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides potential indicators of ritualized abuse in children and pre-teens; as with the previous two bullet points, their presence does not prove ritual abuse and their absence does not disprove it.

What counts as TBMC? Ex-Pentecostal wanting to know because I never really see clear and concise definitions on these things and trying to research RAMCOA gives me a lot of dodgy right wing rhetoric which I don't want to keep having to comb through for my own sanity.

TBMC is known by as two things. One: trauma based mind control. Two: torture based mind control.

Most survivors we've also ran into prefer the former because it tends to include things that are less extreme and not everyone feels their trauma went far enough to be considered torture. It's also unfortunately true that a lotta alt-righters tend to get into mind control in a more co-opting nature, which is ironic given the group that did that to us was alt-right. Honestly we find the TB to be unnecessary given mind control is always traumatic and is inherently horrific.

What counts as TBMC?

TBMC is something done primarily through abusive means to induce a dissociative state, in which one becomes more suggestible. This can be done in order to intentionally create parts/alters (when done starting on someone as a child in rare cases) or just to make someone behave the way you want them to. This is why sometimes people who are abducted by other countries as agents betray their old group and join in with their abusers. (For an extreme example). Other ways the dissociative state is achieved is through putting people into forms of trances. This can be done with meditation or mantras, forced hypnotization, and at times substances.

We've got a good mixture of both mind control and conditioning. The conditioning is done more via Pavlov's Dogs type experiences and "training" and is less tied to TBMC and typically easier to train out of. Mind control- especially in those raised with it- is driven into a part of their personality. It becomes an essential piece of the whole identity and it is not something that can be taken away without proper aid and therapy. You cannot deprogram yourself from mind control the way you can "uncondition" yourself, so to speak.

Anything that was driven into you while in a dissociative state (thus highly suggestible) or being actively traumatized that is ideological, personal, an act, behaviors, etc. is typically a form of mind control. A very common example of this is being made to be fully and completely dependent upon your leader/an authority figure. This may result in what is reminiscent of worship of the individual and in some cases leaves the victims incapable of making decisions. To this day we have to ask friends in desperation what food we should eat because the idea of deciding for ourselves is far too difficult. We roll dice connected to numbers to mark our decisions in hopes of having a way to make a choice. (And again, this is but one example.)

Some of the information we have garnered on the subject comes from a variety of sources more heavily focused upon cults as that was what we grew up in and with. We have dug deep into the information on what makes a cult a cult and what signs of specific types of cultic programming we exhibit. Even then programming can be hard to categorize and know what is meant by because it's so personal and specific in its application. I am uncertain if we are of much help- but I will say we personally see no harm in if you find spaces appropriate for it, asking if specific things you expect may be programming or signs of TBMC are able to be labeled as such. That's what we had to do to accept we were a RAMCOA survivor as we originally had less memories of the cult until given the name by our parents (to be clear we did this only because we were already in therapy and part of our recovery and work is being done in order to come out against the group and the leader, and have full legal protections as a whistle blower)

A comic about the spectrum of responses to stress - we talk alot about the more extreme ends of this and trauma, but the more subtle and every day responses can be harder to spot. if we can understand our own and other’s responses better, problems Are easier to confront and blaming is less likely to happen :) hope it’s helpful!!

Things endos/tulpas don’t talk about or romanticize about DID/OSDD

tw: mentions of trauma, csa, abuse, hallucinations, introject guilt, self harm

Not remembering/knowing seemingly common information (math, history, trivia, etc) because your trauma blocked it out.

Introjects of abusers.

Alters with opinions/beliefs that are generally harmful (homophobic, pro-MAP, sexist, etc.)

Introjects from harmful/problematic sources because of what you used to cope during trauma.

hallucinations and flashbacks

hypoarousal and tonic immobility

hypersexual littles from previous csa

introject guilt (feeling bad for being canon divergent, pressure to be “accurate”)

nobody wanting to front and feeling empty/hollow.

fear of not being taken seriously even by medical professionals

fear of being seen as evil

system responsibility even in horrible situations

alters that self harm the body, fronting only to see you are in immense pain

having to be covert and not knowing who to trust

fear of faking or that your trauma wasnt enough to cause this disorder

species dysphoria and age dysphoria not being taken seriously because of how non-systems appropriated it

feeling disgusting or unlovable because of your trauma

feeling rage because endos/tulpas appropriated this serious disorder.

Trauma-Punk (Coining)

Concept

An aesthetic and social group/movement focused on trauma survivors of any and all kinds. You have gone through hell and back and you are allowed to be loud, angry, aggressive, and selfish. Traumapunk is for all the unsavory survivors who don’t fall into society's ideal victim mold. It’s taking back the power from times you could not before, it’s being independent and self assured, it’s saying fuck you to the system that allowed your traumas to occur, saying fuck you to the abusers you may have had. You don’t have to be quiet or docile, you can be loud and aggressive.

All trauma survivors matter, and the discrimination and biases we face on a daily basis should no longer go ignored. This is a movement for all the cluster-b disordered people, all the people with PTSD, all the people with DID/OSDD, and any other trauma induced disorders. Everyone with the “wrong” reaction to their trauma and everyone who has decided they will no longer take anyone's shit.

All trauma survivors can be a part of this, regardless of disorders or the lack thereof. Your trauma no matter how big, no matter how small, is valid.

Trauma Punk Flag

[Image ID: The trauma-punk flag, consistent of 7 stripes which are reflected horizontally. The stripes go as follows; Dark Sienna, Rosso Corsa, Old Brick, Carousel Pink, Old Brick, Rosso Corsa, and then Dark Sienna. The flag is all tinted towards a redish color. End ID]

The flags colors all have their own meaning

Dark Sienna: All the negative feelings and emotions that comes from having experienced trauma, the feeling of being alone.

Rosso Corsa: Anger towards what happened, having to fight to survive. Not being docile.

Old Brick: Any and all people with socially unacceptable reactions to their traumas- including disorders, temperament shifts, and being untrusting of others. (Separate from anger).

Carousel Pink: Recovery and healing

This flag is free to be used and never requires any credit.

Core Beliefs

Pro/Supports

People with Personality Disorders

People with PTSD/cPTSD

Traumagenic Systems (DID/OSDD)

CDDs (Complex Dissociative Disorders)

People with lesser known disorders like RAD, ASD (acute stress disorder not autism), DSED

People with trauma based adjustment disorders

People with trauma based anxiety disorders

People with “problematic” (trauma induced) OCD themes

Anyone with trauma

Low empathy

Hyper empathy

Well researched self-dx

Sex-workers

Hypersexual survivors

Sex repulsed survivors

Trans People

Gay People

Intersex people

Xenogenders

Self-defense

Angry Survivors

Survivors who want revenge

Survivors who want to see their perps be better people

Anti-Psych/Psych-Critical

Psychology/psychiatry should be available for those in need- however there are massive issues within the field and it needs to be addressed. We personally prefer Psych-Crit, but people recognize Anti-psych more.

Anti/Against

Ableists

“Narcissistic/Histrionic/Borderline/Sociopathic” Abuse 

The abuser made their choice, having a disorder will never make someone be an abuser, that abusive person CHOSE to be evil. Your anger should be at them, not fellow trauma survivors.

Trauma Comparison

All traumas are valid, some may be harder to deal with than others but we are still all survivors.

Sanists

Fakeclaimers

You never know what someone is going through it is not your place to decide if they have a disorder or not

Terfs/Swerfs/Radfems

Transphobes

Homophobes

Transmeds

Intersexists

Our DNI does not apply to this and only this post (unless you are part of one of the groups in the "against" section.)

This label is allowed to be used by trauma survivors regardless of beliefs on syscourse as we post a lot of syscourse stuff and thought this was necessary to add.

~Just Complex Childhood Trauma Things~

Medical appointments are a trigger

Deep shame from your parents being ashamed

Hypersexuality

Startle reflex to the max

Random kinda happy things make you doubt it happened

Other adults knew something was wrong but ignored it

Matching Sibling Symptoms

Looking back as an adult like “Wow that’s fucked up”

Big inner life makes up for the old one

Hospitals instead of school

Chronic mystery pain

Child to Suicidal in record time

Addiction at a really young age

Hatting the thing ur addicted to because your parent was too

Yelling makes you freeze

Hating when you see yourself doing the thing ur parent did, even if it’s just being loud or using the same phrase

Feeling like you deserve

Feeling guilty for being such a fuck-up

Being “so mature” the whole time growing up

We’re the ‘weird kid’, ‘class clown’ and /or ‘burnout’

Had inappropriate relationships online

Self-harm of some kind

All those mental illness labels

Nowhere feels safe

Not really feeling like a human person

Dissociating the day away

No identity 

Hiding the crying 

Why am I like this? (its the trauma)

Where did the years go?

Having imaginary friends 

Rich fantasy life

Body dysmorphia 

Hate school & hate home 

probably had a shitty first partner