Hope This Is Okay To Ask But How Would A System Who Suspects RAMCOA Figure Out What Their Programming

Can you describe or explain what an emotional flashback is? I wanna have that level of awareness too. I was listening to sad music and disassociating too.

Emotional Flashbacks are one of the hallmark symptoms of CPTSD and one of the things that differentiates it from PTSD. 

In PTSD and typical flashbacks you flashback to an event and are re-experiencing that event as an explicit memory. In typical flashbacks you are experiencing a specific memory of an event. 

In CPTSD and Emotional Flashbacks you flashback to an emotional state without a clear memory of the event that caused this state. So you are experiencing the emotions tied to the traumatic event without remembering the event itself. 

This makes it harder to recognize that you are experiencing a flashback because you seem to just feel bad for no reason, especially if you don’t realize that you were triggered. People with CPTSD sometimes can’t remember specific traumatic events because trauma was long term and a part of their daily life, and/or because the trauma began at such an early age. 

To give a more clear example, I recognized that I was having an emotional flashback today because I was feeling frozen, helpless, powerless, and as if my actions would have no impact on the world around me. 

Just recognizing that you are having an emotional flashback can be helpful, but grounding techniques that pull you back into the present are especially helpful. Once I realized I was in an emotional flashback I turned off the sad music and tried to reorient myself to the present. 

Writing this reply to you has actually been very grounding. 

✦ Rainy day apartment details ✦

Do you have any resources for RAMCOA? Resources for like...the types of programs and stuff like that. We're going through things and trying to research and pinpoint things, but finding resources has been absolute hell. If you get this twice, I'm sorry. Our tumblr is kind of shit.

Hello! I have several resources that I think may be helpful to you:

This document (LINK) of "rare programs" and their descriptions, posted by @killercatboys.

Chapters 4 and 7 of Becoming Yourself by Alison Miller (LINK) discuss programming and chapter 7 includes an anecdote with specific programs and definitions. The entire book is really a great read and is geared towards survivors of RAMCOA, just be sure to take it slow and take care of yourself.

Common Programs Observed in Survivors of Satanic Ritualistic Abuse by David W. Neswald (LINK) - massive trigger warning for suicide, self-harm, and abuse.

Spin Programming: A Newly Uncovered Technique of Systematic Mind Control by John D. Lovern (LINK) - includes symptoms, implementation, and uses of spin programs; trigger warning for abuse/torture methods.

Healing the Unimaginable by Alison Miller (LINK) is geared towards therapists and professionals and includes more in-depth information about RAMCOA than Becoming Yourself does. Again, massive trigger warning throughout the book for RAMCOA.

Kinds of Torture Endured in Ritual Abuse and Trauma-Based Mind Control by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) - partial list of torture methods used in RAMCOA; trigger warning for abuse, near-death, and torture.

Mind Control: Simple to Complex by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) - describes twelve "stages" of mind control and programming, going from outward compliance to torture/trauma-based mind control; trigger warning for descriptions of abuse.

Some Indicators of Trauma-Based Mind Control Programming by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides common indicators of TBMC; most survivors of programming will have many of these indicators, but their presence does not prove the existence of TBMC and their absence does not prove that one has not experienced TBMC.

Adult and Adolescent Indicators of Ritual Trauma by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides indicators of ritual abuse in teens and adults; as with the last bullet point, their presence does not prove ritual abuse and their absence does not disprove it.

Child Indicators of Ritual Abuse Trauma in Play and Art by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides potential indicators of ritualized abuse in children and pre-teens; as with the previous two bullet points, their presence does not prove ritual abuse and their absence does not disprove it.

Feel free to reblog for sample size & add comments in the tags.

RAMCOA stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, & Organized Abuse.

~Fluff time~ (slight hurt/comfort, fluffiness, and this is based off of my headcanon about New York loving coloring books)

Also: Connie is Connecticut’s nickname

=======================================================================

5pm:

The meeting had been rather stressful for New York today. There was a lot of yelling and fighting and cussing and other various loud sounds that were overstimulating him and he felt like just curling up in ball and crying where he sat and covering his ears to block out everything. But then he would have had to deal with the others asking what was wrong with him and he did NOT need their pity.

Once the meeting was over, he left the meeting room as fast as he could without literally sprinting like a D1 track athlete and went to his room. Once he got there, he grabbed one of his many adult coloring books, his 96 pack of crayons (bet it has a sharpener too- those are literally the best-), his phone, and his Bluetooth headphones. York set the stuff on his bed and walked over to his closet and grabbed his cropped AC/DC hoodie the may or may not be a little big on him and literally eliminated his arms/hands. He put on the hoodie and headphones, turned on his music, grabbed his stuff, and started his way to the living room. On his way out of his room, he saw one of his fidget cubes and grabbed it with little to no hesitation before going to the living room.

He walked down the hall and looked around the lounge area of the NE floor to see how many people were there. Pennsylvania and Mass were talking in the kitchen, Jersey and Rhode Island were sitting at the kitchen island exchanging memes, and Maine was sitting on couch paying attention to the TV. Aight, he’ll be alright. York snuck past everybody and went into the corner of the living room where he usually hid when he wanted to. There, he set down his stuff, grabbed a pillow, found a good picture, and got to work.

There was something about coloring that brought some weird form of peace to his soul. He just liked the mindlessness of it and the fact that it gave him two positive things to focus on instead of many negative things, and that was: staying in the lines and listening to the music.

=======================================================================

A few hours later, at around 10pm:

Connecticut was getting ready for bed when he decided to go get a cup of water before sleeping. As he walked to the kitchen, he noticed something laying in the corner of the living room. He walked over and his heart nearly melted at the sight that lay before him.

York was curled up in a ball near fully asleep next to his coloring book on the floor. He had one arm, which was covered completely by his hoodie sleeve, wrapped around his torso and his legs pulled up to torso. His other arm/hand that wasn’t wrapped around himself had a crayon in it, and York’s phone was next to him still playing his music and his hood was covering his head as well as half his face. It was overall an adorable sight, but Connie wasn’t about to let York just sleep on the floor like that. He was also questioning how the he// York was able to sleep in that position and be comfy.

He walked over to his youngest brother and knelt down next to him. He gently shook York’s shoulder and whispered, "York..?" A few times. Slowly but surely Connie heard a slight groan, indicating that York was slightly awake now. He gently took the hood off of the younger’s head and ruffled his hair slightly, chuckling when he leaned into the touch. "C’mon ya little dork. Time for bed. You need it."

"Mm not tired…." York mumbled as though he wasn’t practically asleep right now.

"Mhm yea okay." Connie said sarcastically as he ran his hand York’s hair and gently scratched his scalp, putting the younger in pure bliss. "Yer literally falling asleep right now."

"Mm not…." protested the Empire State. "F(speaks New York) off…."

"Yes you are, don’t bother tryin’ to get out of this." Said the Constitution State. He gently poked York his exposed side, making him flinch and curl up completely. This gave Connie the opportunity to pick up the taller in his arms, carry him to the couch, and lay down with York (who was practically asleep) curled up next to him. He grabbed a comforter that was on the back of the couch and gently draped it over the two of them.

York had now buried his face in his brother’s chest and was sound asleep.

Connie tilted his head slightly and planted a gentle brotherly kiss to the top of his head. "Night Yorkie…."

And he could’ve sworn he heard a near dead silent, "Welterusten (Dutch for: Good Night)." in response to his words.

if it’s ok to ask what exactly counts as experiencing tbmc? does it include manipulation and gaslighting.. childhood torture? what exactly is mind control how does someone know if they have been through that? is childhood torture in general considered ramcoa as well or must it meet specified requirements?

Okay so we ended up getting hit by a shit ton of stuff in our life so we've been a bit less active here- sorry it took a while to answer.

First we have another post we have made discussing some of the stuff surrounding TBMC. You can find that post here.

Second, this is a religious sight that is trying to make Christianity more healthy and safe and trauma informed, not fully our cup of tea but it has an interesting page on TBMC here. (Mention it's religious and which religion because it can be triggering)

Now onto us actually answering things ourself.

what exactly counts as experiencing tbmc? does it include manipulation and gaslighting.. childhood torture?

TBMC as we have previously mentioned is known as Trauma Based or Torture Based Mind Control. Childhood torture very often is done for the purpose of mind control, in which case it would fall under TBMC. Most childhood torture is RAMCOA but not all of it falls under TBMC as TBMC is more known as the result rather than the traumatic incidents that it takes to occur the way RAMCOA generally defines the experiences.

TBMC is also not something only children can experience. The experiences of children born into it or raised with it at a young age will be different than an adult introduced to it later in life, but it is still TBMC all the same. There is no cut off age for when torture magically can stop affecting the wiring of your brain. Humans are malleable, and bad people will always know that. Governments will know that too. TBMC is rampant among governmental agencies.

All TBMC is manipulation- but not all manipulation is TBMC. TBMC is done with the goal of rewiring your brain and making you behave in very specific ways. It's meant to make you do things you would not otherwise or believe in things you would not otherwise. It is intrinsically linked to programming. Programming can be done to individual alters (induced by programmers targeting a specific self-state or state of mind or associating certain traumas with specific orders/tasks/etc to make an alter be attached to a specific behavior or task or idea), and system-wide or on the whole of the person (think strong unwavering loyalty common in many cults that refuse all evidence of being in a cult).

Gaslighting might get used within TBMC but it is not inherited to TBMC and by itself would not produce the same effects as TBMC.

what exactly is mind control how does someone know if they have been through that?

Oh man this is where it gets very tricky. There is no exact answer to what mind control is as it happens in a variety of different ways. Mind control is basically manipulation of someone's thoughts and behavior that then become intrinsic to the person and last far after they were programmed. It's more than just being made to believe strange things- it's internalizing them to such a degree that they impact your day to day life and view of the world as a whole.

Us being a decade away from the cult and having no reason to go back but having an urge even stronger than our OCD compulsions at times to go back is one type of programming we experience. We also have what presents as agoraphobia- but do not have fear of open spaces and can get groceries fine and go to work and school without issue. This is actually our self-isolation program that tells us when there is no obligation we should never interact with anyone else- there is no reason to. Unless the reason is to proselytize- and since we do not have the faith we once did, that is no longer an option. It's a deeply internalized behavior and belief that sticks even when we logically know it's bad. We are aware it is stupid and unreasonable but we physically cannot break out of it (where we are in recovery currently that is).

It's hard to tell for sure if you have it or not. One thing we had that should have been incredibly fucking obvious to us but wasn't- was that we excused the abuse one of the people in our life put us through as "he was just trying to train us". Never occurred to us that the fact he was "training" us made it worse. It was basically self-defense but not for actual defense type stuff if you catch my drift.

There can also be signs within your behavior. Sometimes it's hard to differentiate OCD and programs as well because some programs can be pushed back on the same way you can with OCD compulsions. However in our case most of our programs are just innate and incredibly difficult to stop ourselves from doing if we can at all. Realizing you have behavior that you struggle to physically stop and have no wish to engage in and do while consciously being aware you do not want to do them and this happens often- was one of the big signs to us. (And again it's a very complex issue because of different mental health concerns that could be tricky.)

is childhood torture in general considered ramcoa as well or must it meet specified requirements?

We personally consider it to fall under that because more extreme forms of abuse tend to end up with the same issues but there is debate. The most common things people know of that fall under RAMCOA is trafficking and cults.

However if you are trying to determine if something you have already known to experience counts as this term there's a few things you can do.

Does it fall under RA/Ritual abuse? It can hard to tell but I suggest just looking up basic information on what RA is conceptually (if you are in a good mental state and/or have a professional to fall back on and if possible a safety net of friends or family). RA is a very vast concept.

Did you experience TBMC or another form of mind control? If yes then automatically the label applies to you. This also goes for hypnotic mind control and substances used for mind control- as they are also important but less talked about forms of this.

Did you experienced organized abuse? This is a group partaking in abuse towards you. Whether it be mandated or the norm by something like a cult, or a criminal ring, etc. It's a bit hard to get into right now for me.

The only requirements are that you experience RA, MC, or OA. You can experience multiple- RA AND MC for example. Or just one. OA or RA. We struggle mostly with MC as we grew up in a cult that kinda worshipped the leader almost (but nobody would ever admit it even though they quote shit he says online like bible quotes). Which is why we talk about it so much, but it's not necessary to be a RAMCOA survivor.

It's okay to take time to figure out the extent of trauma you might have gone through. It's okay if you fit or don't fit any particular label. All trauma is incredibly important. There just tends to be a lot of subgroups of people with specific experiences because of how it impacts their daily life.

Heres a reminder for you that being dissociated isn't limited to the common misconception where you are frozen in place, incapable of doing anything or even thinking, or experiencing a significant time gap,, those things.

And while its hard to spot the milder signs when you're dissociating, don't worry i got you covered by bringing awareness, im showing what those signs could look like:

Dazing/blanking out several times

Hands looking weird (depersonalization)

Surroundings also looking weird (derealization)

Feeling detached emotionally, physically, or both

Light-headedness

Less reactive in responding

Forget things more often

Unable to focus or keep concentration straight

When you have multiple of those signs at once, then chances are you are dissociating (extra note that it can also co-occur with derealization/depersonalization). While it can be caused by various factors, i would like to add that it may or may not get worse as time passes and no one wants that thing to snowball until it got too bad (remember, preventing now is better than dealing later) so having a few tips would help:

Grounding (sensory): listening to music, feeling different textures, paying attention to things in your surroundings, trying different fragrant or scents, have some snacks to occupy your senses

Grounding (physically): feel your chest as you breathe, get your body moving to redirect focus, splash some cold water, hold something you can squeeze (such as a stress ball)

Practice being mindful. As it can help you re-anchor back to reality faster, regulate better, building more resilience, increasing awareness of oneself's state

Sometimes we go do our day without giving a thought that were detached from reality, usually by going autopilot and scrolling through social medias without being aware (well, atleast for me) and forget lots of things while being dysregulated at the end. So by being aware of the mild signs and incorporating grounding skills im sure memory gaps and those funny aftermath stuffs won't be a problem anymore, have a good day peeps.

- j

Other Personality Disorders

This post is about personality disorders that used to exist in the DSM or ICD but don’t anymore. You cannot be diagnosed with these disorders, as they’re not in any diagnostic manual; you would be diagnosed with Other Specified Personality Disorder (or the ICD-11 equivalent) instead.

Passive-Aggressive / Negativistic (PA/NegPD)

A pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts.

Masochistic / Self-Defeating (Ma/SDPD)

A pervasive pattern of self-defeating behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts. The person may often avoid or undermine pleasurable experiences, be drawn to situations or relationships in which he or she will suffer, and prevent others from helping him or her.

Sadistic (SaPD)

A pervasive pattern of cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts.

Depressive / Melancholic (De/MePD)

A pervasive pattern of depressive cognitions and behaviors, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts.

Other Personality Disorders

Turbulent

Turbulent PD has never existed in any DSM. It’s part of Millon’s theorised personality disorder taxonomy, but doesn’t appear in any other literature.

It seems to be an alternate way of categorising and defining hypomania & cyclothymic disorder, and is similar to ADHD, NPD & HPD.

Millon classes it on a spectrum from ebullient personality type -> exuberant personality style -> turbulent personality disorder.

Haltlose

Theorised in German, Russian, and French psychiatry.

Haltlose translates to “unstable” (literally, “without footing”) and refers to a “drifting, aimless and irresponsible lifestyle: a translation might be ‘lacking a hold' on life or onto the self)”.

“Those with haltlose personality disorder have features of frontal lobe syndrome, sociopathic and histrionic personality traits”.

Someone with haltlose PD “lacks concentration and persistence”, and “lives in the present only”. They are “easily persuaded, and [are] often led astray”.

Haltlose PD is similar to AsPD as there is “an inability to learn from experience, and no sincere sense of remorse”. They are often described as ‘lovable rouges’.

(Cullivan, R, ‘‘Haltlose’ type personality disorder (ICD-10 F60.8)’, Psychiatric Bulletin, 1998, pp. 58-59).

Immature

Immature PD was mentioned in the DSM-III as a specifier for Other Specified PD, but removed in later editions.

It seems to be a combination of borderline, histrionic, narcissistic, antisocial, dependent, schizoid and avoidant PDs.

Almeida et al. suggest the following criteria for Immature PD: irresponsibility; impulsivity; unreliability; easily swayed; mood swings; expect overindulgence from others; dependency on others; ability for remorse or regret but it’s “light and fleeting”; inability to manage assets; inability to follow plans; quick to lie; unable to delay gratification; quick to frustration; devaluation of others; risk-taking behaviour; unstable relationships and behaviour; feels both entitled and worthless; attention seeking; recklessness; shyness; ungrateful; over-familiar with others; unable to plan for the future; substance use.

They also suggest 3 subtypes of Immature PD: the dramatic and emotional subtype, the shy subtype, and the mixed subtype.

(Almeida et al., 'Immature Personality Disorder: Contribution to the Definition of this Personality', Clinical Neuroscience & Neurological Research, 2019, pp. 1-16).

Eccentric and Psychoneurotic

These two personality disorders existed only as ‘other specified’ PDs in the ICD-10, where no definition is given.

I have a question, for systems whove never switched before/have someone frontstuck, how do you deal with that? Like how do you get them unfrontstuck? Our host has been frontstuck for two years and we dont know what to do and we’re desperate at this point

here's some resources for switching:

https://plural.systems/posts/switching/

https://www.feathersong.org/plural-howto/feathers-guide-to-fronting-and-switching/

https://gist.github.com/Xe/b97203769acb3dfa761f#malfaels-guide-to-switching

https://write.as/within/switching

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/comments/1cigb6/selfawarebots_switching_guide/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/comments/2f7ysm/guide_so_you_wanna_switch_do_you_really_might_be/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/comments/5gaqye/a_quick_switching_practice_selftest_miniguide/

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/plural/comments/gk4a0z/learning_to_switch_voluntarily/

a lot of these are for tulpas, but should still work for any system

TW: DISCUSSION OF PROGRAMMING, CULT MENTION (RAMCOA), AND TBMC MENTION. STAY SAFE!!!

Being polyfrag and having programmed parts is so weird. Like one example, having layers is super weird because I don’t even who know the host or co-host are. I don’t know who most of the system is, as our area only has around 22 parts (small for us). Though, I suppose it’s probably for protection as most are programmed and all but one (I think???) has nothing directly to do with any trauma.

Speaking of programming, our host is in huge denial of it!! In our journal xe’re like “yeah we have parts that literally follow a mysterious religious figure nobody has ever heard of and we have parts that are like practicing extremely loyal sex cult followers and parts for enduring TBMC as well as all the symptoms of programmed aka HC-DID but I can’t remember any of it so it must be quirkiness” like ??????? It’s almost as if you’re a supposed to be like that XD

And that’s not even mentioning how large our system is!!! We have exactly 90 logged parts, a little over 3/4s of which are fragments. I know Ellie and probably some others are also questioning if they’re a subsystem (in the alter with alters way) because of slight amnesia and slightly differing roles. And I know that the 90 known, even if nobody known is a subsystem, are not all of us.

We have times where we black out and we don’t know who fronted, but it appears to be somebody who hasn’t been logged. There have been times where we are doing one thing and all of a sudden we’re somewhere doing something we didn’t know we would do, and nobody knows who it was.

There’s so much to us, it’s like an iceberg except the parts of the iceberg don’t know the other parts, and the pieces of the iceberg above and below the surface don’t know the other exists. So strange!!!